HercegBosna.org

HercegBosna.org

Forum Hrvata BiH
 
Sada je: 29 ožu 2024, 06:19.

Vremenska zona: UTC + 01:00




Započni novu temu Odgovori  [ 20402 post(ov)a ] 
Stranica Prethodna  1 ... 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65 ... 817  Sljedeća
Autor/ica Poruka
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 24 lis 2014, 11:41 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 05 lis 2010, 11:48
Postovi: 109215
Lokacija: Županija Herceg-Bosna
Smiju li danas doći zapadnjaci da spase Jezide od ISIL-a ? Kakvo je tvoje mišljenje o tome.

_________________
Spetsnaz, a force for good.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 24 lis 2014, 11:47 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
korrisnik je napisao/la:
Zaboravljaj ti koliko hoćeš ali opet su došli sa drugog kontinenta.


Onda vi svi muslimani mrš u Arabiju pa tamo prakticirajte tu arapsku plemensku religiju.

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 24 lis 2014, 19:10 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 18 sij 2014, 16:10
Postovi: 15091
Lokacija: Pod kraljevskim Srebrn'kom
BBC je napisao/la:
Smiju li danas doći zapadnjaci da spase Jezide od ISIL-a ? Kakvo je tvoje mišljenje o tome.


Smiju spašavali su nas od kršćanskih isila da ne bi smjeli njih.

_________________
Dušom i krvlju iskupit ćemo te, o Al-Aksa!
Bi ruh bi dam nafdika ya Aqsa” By our souls, by our blood, all for you oh Al-Aqsa


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 24 lis 2014, 19:12 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 18 sij 2014, 16:10
Postovi: 15091
Lokacija: Pod kraljevskim Srebrn'kom
doc je napisao/la:
korrisnik je napisao/la:
Zaboravljaj ti koliko hoćeš ali opet su došli sa drugog kontinenta.


Onda vi svi muslimani mrš u Arabiju pa tamo prakticirajte tu arapsku plemensku religiju.


Opet si površan. Uzrok križarskom ratu je taj da je napadnuto Istočno kršćanstvo . E onda je pozvan papa. Našao je sebi dobru ublehu prodavati, bit će oprošteno onima koji budu išli u taj rat. Pa još i djecu kasnije slali Boga pitaj gdje i ne znaju sama.

_________________
Dušom i krvlju iskupit ćemo te, o Al-Aksa!
Bi ruh bi dam nafdika ya Aqsa” By our souls, by our blood, all for you oh Al-Aqsa


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 01:09 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Ako nemaš šta za reći, produži.

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 13:38 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 26 lis 2014, 09:58
Postovi: 2352
Lokacija: Република Српска/Republika Srpska
Izrael, dok je god saveznik SAD, drzace ovaj nerijesen status jer njime unapredjuje svoj polozaj. Okrug Judeje i Samarije (kod nas poznat kao Zapadna obala) sa 335 000 stanovnika moze za dvadesetgak godina sadasnjom populacionom i demografskom politikom Izraela vrlo lako postati i de jure Izraelska teritorija (mada de fakto vec jeste, jer je pod vojnom upravom Izraela).

Sledeca vazna stvar je sto i pored velikog priliva jevrejskog stanovnistva iz svijeta, u poslednjim godinama je primjetan odliv Arapa, kao i priliv stranaca, cime se demografska slika ubrzano mijenja.

Zatim, anektirana i jos nepriznata Golanska visoravan je prakticno Izraelska, jer vecinu cine Zidovi (Jevreji).

Ostaje samo pojas Gaze, sto je i bio cilj Izraelu.

Ne treba iskljuciti opciju kada Izrael ustabili pozicije i zacementira ih da ponovo ne krene na Sinajsko poluostrvo - pogotovu jer je veoma rijetko naseljeno (200 000), uglavnom beduinima. Ako ne direktno, onda indirektno u vidu pobuna i sl., a samim tim stvaranje uslova za invaziju. Sa formiranjem 4 grada na podrucjima bogatim naftom, gvozdjem i manganskim rudama vrlo brzo bi postali vecina u demografskom smislu, s obzirom na njihovu populacionu politiku.

_________________
Za dobar zivot nije rodjen svako


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 13:51 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Nakon osnutka države Izrael demografski stručnjaci izraelskog premijera Ben Guriona su predviđali da će do kraja stoljeća Židovi činiti između 10-15% stanovništva Izraela i Palestine.

Danas Židova ima više od Palestinaca na teritoriju Izraela i Palestine.

U isto vrijeme su savjetnici zapovjednika okupacije Japana Douglasa MacArthura predviđali da je Japan trajno izgubljen i da će ostati siromašna zemlja koja će biti konkurentna jedino u proizvodnji riže, bicikala, gume i dječjih igračaka.

Toliko o predviđanjima.

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 14:07 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 26 lis 2014, 09:58
Postovi: 2352
Lokacija: Република Српска/Republika Srpska
doc je napisao/la:
Nakon osnutka države Izrael demografski stručnjaci izraelskog premijera Ben Guriona su predviđali da će do kraja stoljeća Židovi činiti između 10-15% stanovništva Izraela i Palestine.

Danas Židova ima više od Palestinaca na teritoriju Izraela i Palestine.

U isto vrijeme su savjetnici zapovjednika okupacije Japana Douglasa MacArthura predviđali da je Japan trajno izgubljen i da će ostati siromašna zemlja koja će biti konkurentna jedino u proizvodnji riže, bicikala, gume i dječjih igračaka.

Toliko o predviđanjima.


Prvo, nakon WWII na teritoriji tadasnje Palestine je bilo oko 30% Zidova, a ne 15%, kao sto ti kazes. Drugo, vec 60-tih godina ih je bilo oko 40%. Danas je taj broj oko 80%.
Po osnivanju drzave Izrael nije se moglo ni sanjati da ce se SSSR raspasti i da cese 90-tih skoro 500 000 sovjetskih Jevreja trajno doseliti u Izrael i udvostruciti ekonomiju.
Takodje, nisu mogli ni da sanjaju da ce pored nekoliko ratova nastaviti proces naseljavanja Izraelaca na te teritorije, jer mentalitet naroda nije isti kao na zapadu (a vecina tadasnjih vodja Izraela je bila zapadna skola).
Takodje, Golanska visoravan i Zapadna obala ce za koju godinu vec biti vecinski Izraelski, cime oni svoj cilj polako ali sigurno ispunjavaju. Sinaj im je jos trn u oku, ali i za njega se pita Amerika i dovoljno je samo da klimne glavom, ako je to njoj u interesu i to ce biti prakticno gotova stvar.

_________________
Za dobar zivot nije rodjen svako


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 14:35 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Čitati s razumijevanjem.

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 14:39 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 21:39
Postovi: 58277
Lokacija: DAZP HQ
bas da ce Zapadna obala uskoro biti vecinski zidovska nije tocno. Arapa je tamo oko dva i pol milijuna, a Zidova oko pola milijuna. bez obzira na veliki prirast i doseljavanje zidovskog stanovnistva i Arapi imaju prirast, ne drasticno manji i Zidovi ih mogu dostici samo ako ce uspjeti doci do brojke od 4 milijuna, a to nece biti nimalo lak zadatak, niti je to izvjesno.

_________________
"Hrvata je danas u BiH manje od 400.000, ali je naš cilj da nas je milijun", kazao je Čović.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 14:47 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 01 lip 2009, 14:18
Postovi: 8425
doc je napisao/la:
Nakon osnutka države Izrael demografski stručnjaci izraelskog premijera Ben Guriona su predviđali da će do kraja stoljeća Židovi činiti između 10-15% stanovništva Izraela i Palestine.

Danas Židova ima više od Palestinaca na teritoriju Izraela i Palestine.


Tad su činili 87% stanovništva (bez Zapadne Obale i Gaze), a danas na istom prostoru 75% (zapravo i malo manje jer su u taj broj uračunati i naseljenici u Zapadnoj Obali). A ni projekcije za narednih 20 godina im nisu baš optimistične, uprkos visokofertilnim religioznim zajednicama.

slika


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 14:49 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Jel znate vi čitati s razumijevanjem?

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 14:55 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 21:39
Postovi: 58277
Lokacija: DAZP HQ
Palestinci imaju povoljniji demografski momentum od Zidova, ali za razliku od ortodoksnih Zidova nisu rezistentni na opadanje fertilitet zbog cega ce dugorocno Zidovi ponovno dizati svoj udio, ali to ce efekt imati tek za 20 i vise godina. Zapadna Obala vec sad nije nista fertilnija od Zidova u globalu, a Arapi u Izraelu su tek nesto iznad izraelskog prosjeka, ali im je trend opadajuci. jedino jos Gaza odoljeva i oni su na razini Zidova na Zapadnoj Obali, stopa fertiliteta oko pet.

_________________
"Hrvata je danas u BiH manje od 400.000, ali je naš cilj da nas je milijun", kazao je Čović.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 15:02 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 21 kol 2011, 15:34
Postovi: 15313
Lokacija: Misao svijeta
dudu je napisao/la:
Palestinci imaju povoljniji demografski momentum od Zidova, ali za razliku od ortodoksnih Zidova nisu rezistentni na opadanje fertilitet zbog cega ce dugorocno Zidovi ponovno dizati svoj udio, ali to ce efekt imati tek za 20 i vise godina. Zapadna Obala vec sad nije nista fertilnija od Zidova u globalu, a Arapi u Izraelu su tek nesto iznad izraelskog prosjeka, ali im je trend opadajuci. jedino jos Gaza odoljeva i oni su na razini Zidova na Zapadnoj Obali, stopa fertiliteta oko pet.


To mi je fascinantno. Nakrcano ih je gotovo dva milijuna na par km2 i još uvijek imaju takav fertilitet.

_________________
Te kad mi jednom s dušom po svemiru se krene,
Zaorit ću ko grom:
O, gledajte ju divnu, vi zvijezde udivljene,
To moj je, moj je dom!


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 15:03 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 01 lip 2009, 14:18
Postovi: 8425
dudu je napisao/la:
Palestinci imaju povoljniji demografski momentum od Zidova, ali za razliku od ortodoksnih Zidova nisu rezistentni na opadanje fertilitet zbog cega ce dugorocno Zidovi ponovno dizati svoj udio, ali to ce efekt imati tek za 20 i vise godina. Zapadna Obala vec sad nije nista fertilnija od Zidova u globalu, a Arapi u Izraelu su tek nesto iznad izraelskog prosjeka, ali im je trend opadajuci. jedino jos Gaza odoljeva i oni su na razini Zidova na Zapadnoj Obali, stopa fertiliteta oko pet.


A ko će im braniti državu i graditi ekonomiju kada ti vjerski fanatici dostignu preko 30% stanovništva?
Ta zajednica im je mač sa 2 oštrice.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 15:25 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 21:39
Postovi: 58277
Lokacija: DAZP HQ
Vujadin je napisao/la:
dudu je napisao/la:
Palestinci imaju povoljniji demografski momentum od Zidova, ali za razliku od ortodoksnih Zidova nisu rezistentni na opadanje fertilitet zbog cega ce dugorocno Zidovi ponovno dizati svoj udio, ali to ce efekt imati tek za 20 i vise godina. Zapadna Obala vec sad nije nista fertilnija od Zidova u globalu, a Arapi u Izraelu su tek nesto iznad izraelskog prosjeka, ali im je trend opadajuci. jedino jos Gaza odoljeva i oni su na razini Zidova na Zapadnoj Obali, stopa fertiliteta oko pet.


A ko će im braniti državu i graditi ekonomiju kada ti vjerski fanatici dostignu preko 30% stanovništva?
Ta zajednica im je mač sa 2 oštrice.


zasad im dobro dolaze jer im "proizvode" ljude, ali je to dobro pitanje. ili ce naci kompromis s tim zajednicama ili ocekuju da iz svake generacije dio otpadne.

_________________
"Hrvata je danas u BiH manje od 400.000, ali je naš cilj da nas je milijun", kazao je Čović.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 18:05 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Dudu će bolje znati ne da mi se sad tražiti i biti precizan. Ali čitao sam ozbiljne demografske analize i predviđanja su da će za 20ak godina Haredi Židovi i Arapi biti većina školske djece unutar Izraela (20% za prve i 30% za druge). Kako su Arapi peta kolona, a Haredi imaju stav prema Izraelu koji ide od indiferentnosti do neprijateljstva (Naturei Karta otvoreno pozivaju na uništenje Izraela) jer smatraju da se Židovska država ne smije obnoviti do dolaska Mesije i da je ovo "ljudsko dijelo" miješanje u Božji plan (iako ima i manjina koja služi vojsku u Haredi jedinicama) a uz to imaju i štetočinski životni stil prema državi (većina muškaraca ne radi, bubetaju Talmud i črčkarije raznih rabina kroz povijest napamet, ne žele služiti vojsku, odnosno imali su prigovor savjesti do prije godinu, siromašni su i štancaju puno djece koja će postati poput njih) i kad se tome pridoda možda 10% stanovništva koji su sekularni maligni židovski ljevičari ludi poput ovih na Zapadu, situacija im je nezavidna.

Ostaje 40ak posto cionista, od religioznih, desnih do lijevih ali sekularnih i "normalnih". S time da je dona struktura još gora jer su Arapi i Haredi užasno mladi.

Uglavnom za razliku od Amerike i Europe gdje je često ta mainstream elita u krivu, u Izraelu su oni s obje strane centra normalni, narod i elita, a ekstremi na lijevo i desno štetni.

Citat:
According to both projections, the slim majority currently held in primary school by the children of secular and traditional Jewish families, plus the children of immigrants, will be replaced by a majority (perhaps as high as 55 percent) of Israeli-Arab and Haredi children, each in their own school system, by 2030. However, our projections suggest that in 2030 the non-Haredi, non-Arab group—other Jews and others—will retain a majority, about 67 percent of eligible voters (down from 79 percent in 2010) among Israel’ s electorate (18 years of age and older).


Citat:
The CBS has been reported to have estimated that, in 1960, 15 percent of students in the Israeli primary school system were either receiving an Arab or Ultra-Orthodox-supervised education. This same account claims that by 2007, 46 percent were counted in those two educational categories. Our forecindicates that by 2030, 55 percent of primary school students will be children from those two groups (constant-fertility projection, 57 percent; replacement-fertility projection, 53 percent). However, it will take two to three more decades beyond our projections for these two politically disparate ethnoreligious groups make similar inroads into the portions of Israel’s age structure that are eligible to vote (18 years and older). By 2030, the combined po pulation of Haredim and Israeli Arabs is likely to be very close to composing half (47 percent, in our forecast) of all 15 to 19 year olds (Fig. 4).


Citat:
Israeli Arabs, who currently comprise about 15 percent of eligible voters and whom we project to rise to 23 percent by 2030, have cast their votes for lists of Israel’s left, often significantly augmenting Labor’s tally. Because the political sentiments of Haredi voters—presently ~6 percent of those eligible—lie overwhelmingly to the right, it is logical to expect the Knesset’s political center of gravity to shift rightward by 2030, when our forecast suggests they will account for 17 percent of the eligible electorate. Such a shift would make Arab votes even more critical to left-center coalitions.


http://paa2010.princeton.edu/papers/100015

Citat:
According to the forecast, between 13 and 20 million people will live in Israel in 2059. According to the high population growth forecast, non-hareidi Jews will make up about 37% of the population in 2059, the Arab population will make up about 20% of citizens, and the hareidi-religious population will grow to make up about 41% of Israeli citizens.

In contrast, data from 2009 showed that non-hareidi Jews made up 70% of the population and hareidim only made up about 10%.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... E0fnGfBoSp

Drugi veliki problem koji je sve aktualniji i ubrzava se.

Delegitimizacija postojanja Izraela.

Citat:
Yet a little over six decades later, there appears to be a reverse trend against Israel. Its delegitimization seems to be on the rise, fast becoming a growing trend progressing from the Middle East and the margins into the mainstream of international discourse. An imaginary line stretches from the Durban World Conference Against Racism in 2001, which was dedicated to the condemnation of Israel as a racist state, to the Goldstone Report of 2009, which condemned Israel as guilty of war crimes in Gaza and continues to be featured on the UN’s agenda.


Citat:
Many of the perpetrators of the current delegitimization trend are inspired by the example of South Africa under apartheid, which at the end of the day succumbed to the pressures of international delegitimization. Boycotted and ostracized, despite its military and economic might, it could no longer function as a state with an apartheid regime. Perpetrators of the delegitimization of Israel strive to blur the significant and fundamental differences between the official and institutionalized racist policies of apartheid South Africa, and the Israeli-Palestinian national conflict, thus presenting Israel as a racist, rogue country that routinely breaches human and national rights. The term “apartheid” is increasingly applied to Israel, although its meaning is totally incongruous with any description, even the most critical, of Israeli policy vis-à-vis the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (former U.S. President Jimmy Carter titled his 2006 book “Palestine: Peace not Apartheid,” and “Israel Apartheid” events are currently popular on campuses around the world). The perpetrators of delegitimization assume, and say so openly, that Israel is not strong enough to endure a delegitimization campaign if the image of a second South Africa, of a “pariah state,” sticks to it. If this happens, Israel will face an existential threat. Are we dealing with a real threat here?

For many years the prevailing conception in Israel tended to underestimate the significance of international attitudes toward it, opting to rely on the premise of “My power and the might of my hand (hath gotten me this wealth)” and the support of the U.S. This conception engendered expressions like “Oom Shmoom” or “It doesn’t matter what the Goyim say, what matters is what the Jews do.” But in a multi-polar (some would say non-polar) international system, where the U.S. emphasizes multilateralism, one must take into consideration that increased delegitimization of Israel in the international arena would also increase the strain on the Israel-U.S. relationship. A public debate is already raging in the U.S. about whether Israel is an asset or a liability for the U.S., and a continuing delegitimization trend would very likely fuel this debate further. Clearly, fissures in the Israel-U.S. relationship only serve to encourage further international attacks on Israel by its detractors. Challenging the legitimacy of the State of Israel could also project negatively on the relationship between Israel and Diaspora Jewry. Presumably, an isolated and reviled State of Israel would not be able to serve even as “light unto the Jews,” not to mention “light unto the nations.” Its deteriorating position may have a negative effect on attitudes toward Jews wherever they are, and Israel’s standing as a focus of identification and attraction for the Jewish people could be eroded.

One of the potentially grave consequences for Israel embodied in the delegitimization trend is the curtailed freedom to use its military power in order to defend the state, its citizens and interests. This is certainly the intention of some of the perpetrators, who have sought to weaken Israel in other ways and failed, and are continuing their war against it in alternative ways. In an era of asymmetric war against non-state actors that employ military and terrorist means and tactics from within a civilian environment and against civilians, Israel is trapped on the horns of the dilemma: in taking effective action against such attacks Israel fuels the engine of delegitimization. This trend is discernible in the decline of international legitimization of large-scale military operations by Israel in the last decade – from the relative acceptance of Operation Defensive Shield through the Second Lebanon War to the much more critical responses to Operation Cast Lead (the Goldstone Report) and the Turkish Flotilla affair. It is no coincidence that the delegitimization issue has become a key Israeli consideration in security assessments in recent years.


http://jppi.org.il/uploads/herzog_delegitimation.pdf

Citat:
A central component of delegitimization involves negating the legitimacy of a Jewish nation state per se. In indirect and direct ways de legitimization discourse as opposed to legitimate (and even severe) criticism undercuts or negates the legitimacy of the State of Israel as a Jewish nation state. One indirect means for accomplishing this is to create a double moral standard one impossibly high standard for the Jewish state and one, much lower for everyone else. In a much more blunt and direct fashion some, some delegitimizers have simply denied that the Jews are a nation and hence they have no need for a state. In a more subtle vein, other delegitimizing documents have insinuated that the very idea of a Jewish state is incompatible with democratic norms and international standards, that Israel as Jewish state almost automatically entails serious violation of the rights of its Arab minority.

This issue, and its corollaries, Jewish "carnality" and "materiality", has confronted the Jew in his relations with Christianity in the pre Modern period; it has confronted him in his attempts to enter the modern nation state and modern society. I suggest that it also confronts him now in regard to the state of Israel. Just as Jewish particularity was a problem in regard to the attempts of the individual Jew to become a modern citizen in Europe and to become integrated into modern European society, so its Jewish particularity has become a problem for the State of Israel in its attempt to fit into the contemporary, universal globalized world order. Just as the individual Jew represented a crisis for European modernity, so the collective Jew, the State of Israel, represents a crisis for the contemporary globalized world order. The crisis of the Jew in the European nation state and in European modernity in general was experienced both by the European state and the gentile population (especially the intelligentsia) and by the Jews.


http://jppi.org.il/uploads/De-Legitimiz ... larity.pdf

Citat:
First, it is agreed that we are facing a phenomenon of significant strategic weight due to both its severity and the fact that legitimacy is a critical component of Israel's national security. Worrying data were presented showing a severe downturn in Israel's image in international public opinion, especially in Europe. Operation Cast Lead and the subsequent GoldstoneReport have become watershed events in this context, since they braided into public consciousness the perceptions that Israel is guilty of using disproportionate force sometimesverging on war crimes. The damage to Israel's image was compounded against the background of broader perceptions that Israel does not contribute enough to the solution of the Israel Palestinian conflict and the broader discourse of human rights. It was noted that surveys in the United States still point to stable positive attitudes towards Israel, but a dangerous split regarding Israel is appearing between Republicans (massive support) and Democrats (eroding and declining support).

The phenomenon of delegitimization and contending with it is a type of asymmetric warfare, but this time conducted on the battlefield of ideas. After the attempts to defeat Israel both militarily and through terror have failed, Israel's enemies are now trying to pull the ideational ground from under its feet. This is a difficult, vexing challenge for Israel as it plays out on a global yet amorphous field, where ignorance, prejudice and Israel's vulnerabilities are exploited by a multiplicity of actors (including extreme Islamic and European leftist factions that opportunistically join forces) with a wide variety of tools. One of the observations raised in discussions was that delegitimization is a decentralized and diffuse phenomenon with no single enemy, no single motive, and unconfined to any particular arena. Therefore, contending with it is much more difficult and requires different solutions than past challenges.


http://jppi.org.il/uploads/DELEGITIMIZA ... PEOPLE.pdf

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 18:18 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 26 lis 2014, 09:58
Postovi: 2352
Lokacija: Република Српска/Republika Srpska
doc je napisao/la:
Dudu će bolje znati ne da mi se sad tražiti i biti precizan. Ali čitao sam ozbiljne demografske analize i predviđanja su da će za 20ak godina Haredi Židovi i Arapi biti većina školske djece unutar Izraela (20% za prve i 30% za druge). Kako su Arapi peta kolona, a Haredi imaju stav prema Izraelu koji ide od indiferentnosti do neprijateljstva (Naturei Karta otvoreno pozivaju na uništenje Izraela) jer smatraju da se Židovska država ne smije obnoviti do dolaska Mesije i da je ovo "ljudsko dijelo" miješanje u Božji plan (iako ima i manjina koja služi vojsku u Haredi jedinicama) a uz to imaju i štetočinski životni stil prema državi (većina muškaraca ne radi, bubetaju Talmud i črčkarije raznih rabina kroz povijest napamet, ne žele služiti vojsku, odnosno imali su prigovor savjesti do prije godinu, siromašni su i štancaju puno djece koja će postati poput njih) i kad se tome pridoda možda 10% stanovništva koji su sekularni maligni židovski ljevičari ludi poput ovih na Zapadu, situacija im je nezavidna.

Ostaje 40ak posto cionista, od religioznih, desnih do lijevih ali sekularnih i "normalnih". S time da je dona struktura još gora jer su Arapi i Haredi užasno mladi.

Uglavnom za razliku od Amerike i Europe gdje je često ta mainstream elita u krivu, u Izraelu su oni s obje strane centra normalni, narod i elita, a ekstremi na lijevo i desno štetni.

Citat:
According to both projections, the slim majority currently held in primary school by the children of secular and traditional Jewish families, plus the children of immigrants, will be replaced by a majority (perhaps as high as 55 percent) of Israeli-Arab and Haredi children, each in their own school system, by 2030. However, our projections suggest that in 2030 the non-Haredi, non-Arab group—other Jews and others—will retain a majority, about 67 percent of eligible voters (down from 79 percent in 2010) among Israel’ s electorate (18 years of age and older).


Citat:
The CBS has been reported to have estimated that, in 1960, 15 percent of students in the Israeli primary school system were either receiving an Arab or Ultra-Orthodox-supervised education. This same account claims that by 2007, 46 percent were counted in those two educational categories. Our forecindicates that by 2030, 55 percent of primary school students will be children from those two groups (constant-fertility projection, 57 percent; replacement-fertility projection, 53 percent). However, it will take two to three more decades beyond our projections for these two politically disparate ethnoreligious groups make similar inroads into the portions of Israel’s age structure that are eligible to vote (18 years and older). By 2030, the combined po pulation of Haredim and Israeli Arabs is likely to be very close to composing half (47 percent, in our forecast) of all 15 to 19 year olds (Fig. 4).


Citat:
Israeli Arabs, who currently comprise about 15 percent of eligible voters and whom we project to rise to 23 percent by 2030, have cast their votes for lists of Israel’s left, often significantly augmenting Labor’s tally. Because the political sentiments of Haredi voters—presently ~6 percent of those eligible—lie overwhelmingly to the right, it is logical to expect the Knesset’s political center of gravity to shift rightward by 2030, when our forecast suggests they will account for 17 percent of the eligible electorate. Such a shift would make Arab votes even more critical to left-center coalitions.


http://paa2010.princeton.edu/papers/100015

Citat:
According to the forecast, between 13 and 20 million people will live in Israel in 2059. According to the high population growth forecast, non-hareidi Jews will make up about 37% of the population in 2059, the Arab population will make up about 20% of citizens, and the hareidi-religious population will grow to make up about 41% of Israeli citizens.

In contrast, data from 2009 showed that non-hareidi Jews made up 70% of the population and hareidim only made up about 10%.


http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... E0fnGfBoSp

Drugi veliki problem koji je sve aktualniji i ubrzava se.

Delegitimizacija postojanja Izraela.

Citat:
Yet a little over six decades later, there appears to be a reverse trend against Israel. Its delegitimization seems to be on the rise, fast becoming a growing trend progressing from the Middle East and the margins into the mainstream of international discourse. An imaginary line stretches from the Durban World Conference Against Racism in 2001, which was dedicated to the condemnation of Israel as a racist state, to the Goldstone Report of 2009, which condemned Israel as guilty of war crimes in Gaza and continues to be featured on the UN’s agenda.


Citat:
Many of the perpetrators of the current delegitimization trend are inspired by the example of South Africa under apartheid, which at the end of the day succumbed to the pressures of international delegitimization. Boycotted and ostracized, despite its military and economic might, it could no longer function as a state with an apartheid regime. Perpetrators of the delegitimization of Israel strive to blur the significant and fundamental differences between the official and institutionalized racist policies of apartheid South Africa, and the Israeli-Palestinian national conflict, thus presenting Israel as a racist, rogue country that routinely breaches human and national rights. The term “apartheid” is increasingly applied to Israel, although its meaning is totally incongruous with any description, even the most critical, of Israeli policy vis-à-vis the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (former U.S. President Jimmy Carter titled his 2006 book “Palestine: Peace not Apartheid,” and “Israel Apartheid” events are currently popular on campuses around the world). The perpetrators of delegitimization assume, and say so openly, that Israel is not strong enough to endure a delegitimization campaign if the image of a second South Africa, of a “pariah state,” sticks to it. If this happens, Israel will face an existential threat. Are we dealing with a real threat here?

For many years the prevailing conception in Israel tended to underestimate the significance of international attitudes toward it, opting to rely on the premise of “My power and the might of my hand (hath gotten me this wealth)” and the support of the U.S. This conception engendered expressions like “Oom Shmoom” or “It doesn’t matter what the Goyim say, what matters is what the Jews do.” But in a multi-polar (some would say non-polar) international system, where the U.S. emphasizes multilateralism, one must take into consideration that increased delegitimization of Israel in the international arena would also increase the strain on the Israel-U.S. relationship. A public debate is already raging in the U.S. about whether Israel is an asset or a liability for the U.S., and a continuing delegitimization trend would very likely fuel this debate further. Clearly, fissures in the Israel-U.S. relationship only serve to encourage further international attacks on Israel by its detractors. Challenging the legitimacy of the State of Israel could also project negatively on the relationship between Israel and Diaspora Jewry. Presumably, an isolated and reviled State of Israel would not be able to serve even as “light unto the Jews,” not to mention “light unto the nations.” Its deteriorating position may have a negative effect on attitudes toward Jews wherever they are, and Israel’s standing as a focus of identification and attraction for the Jewish people could be eroded.

One of the potentially grave consequences for Israel embodied in the delegitimization trend is the curtailed freedom to use its military power in order to defend the state, its citizens and interests. This is certainly the intention of some of the perpetrators, who have sought to weaken Israel in other ways and failed, and are continuing their war against it in alternative ways. In an era of asymmetric war against non-state actors that employ military and terrorist means and tactics from within a civilian environment and against civilians, Israel is trapped on the horns of the dilemma: in taking effective action against such attacks Israel fuels the engine of delegitimization. This trend is discernible in the decline of international legitimization of large-scale military operations by Israel in the last decade – from the relative acceptance of Operation Defensive Shield through the Second Lebanon War to the much more critical responses to Operation Cast Lead (the Goldstone Report) and the Turkish Flotilla affair. It is no coincidence that the delegitimization issue has become a key Israeli consideration in security assessments in recent years.


http://jppi.org.il/uploads/herzog_delegitimation.pdf

Citat:
A central component of delegitimization involves negating the legitimacy of a Jewish nation state per se. In indirect and direct ways de legitimization discourse as opposed to legitimate (and even severe) criticism undercuts or negates the legitimacy of the State of Israel as a Jewish nation state. One indirect means for accomplishing this is to create a double moral standard one impossibly high standard for the Jewish state and one, much lower for everyone else. In a much more blunt and direct fashion some, some delegitimizers have simply denied that the Jews are a nation and hence they have no need for a state. In a more subtle vein, other delegitimizing documents have insinuated that the very idea of a Jewish state is incompatible with democratic norms and international standards, that Israel as Jewish state almost automatically entails serious violation of the rights of its Arab minority.

This issue, and its corollaries, Jewish "carnality" and "materiality", has confronted the Jew in his relations with Christianity in the pre Modern period; it has confronted him in his attempts to enter the modern nation state and modern society. I suggest that it also confronts him now in regard to the state of Israel. Just as Jewish particularity was a problem in regard to the attempts of the individual Jew to become a modern citizen in Europe and to become integrated into modern European society, so its Jewish particularity has become a problem for the State of Israel in its attempt to fit into the contemporary, universal globalized world order. Just as the individual Jew represented a crisis for European modernity, so the collective Jew, the State of Israel, represents a crisis for the contemporary globalized world order. The crisis of the Jew in the European nation state and in European modernity in general was experienced both by the European state and the gentile population (especially the intelligentsia) and by the Jews.


http://jppi.org.il/uploads/De-Legitimiz ... larity.pdf

Citat:
First, it is agreed that we are facing a phenomenon of significant strategic weight due to both its severity and the fact that legitimacy is a critical component of Israel's national security. Worrying data were presented showing a severe downturn in Israel's image in international public opinion, especially in Europe. Operation Cast Lead and the subsequent GoldstoneReport have become watershed events in this context, since they braided into public consciousness the perceptions that Israel is guilty of using disproportionate force sometimesverging on war crimes. The damage to Israel's image was compounded against the background of broader perceptions that Israel does not contribute enough to the solution of the Israel Palestinian conflict and the broader discourse of human rights. It was noted that surveys in the United States still point to stable positive attitudes towards Israel, but a dangerous split regarding Israel is appearing between Republicans (massive support) and Democrats (eroding and declining support).

The phenomenon of delegitimization and contending with it is a type of asymmetric warfare, but this time conducted on the battlefield of ideas. After the attempts to defeat Israel both militarily and through terror have failed, Israel's enemies are now trying to pull the ideational ground from under its feet. This is a difficult, vexing challenge for Israel as it plays out on a global yet amorphous field, where ignorance, prejudice and Israel's vulnerabilities are exploited by a multiplicity of actors (including extreme Islamic and European leftist factions that opportunistically join forces) with a wide variety of tools. One of the observations raised in discussions was that delegitimization is a decentralized and diffuse phenomenon with no single enemy, no single motive, and unconfined to any particular arena. Therefore, contending with it is much more difficult and requires different solutions than past challenges.


http://jppi.org.il/uploads/DELEGITIMIZA ... PEOPLE.pdf



Svaka cast. Ovo prvi put citam i ako su izvori pouzdani, mislim da se situacija mjenja iz korjena. Pitanje: Zasto na ove tvrdnje ne naletimo u svakodnevnoj stampi (elektronskim medijima) ili makar na tragove koji bi upucivali na ovu temu ili se to tako vjesto skriva?

_________________
Za dobar zivot nije rodjen svako


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 20:03 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Ne vidim što je tu sporno da bi se skrivalo.

To su sve poznate stvari i trendovi koji se razvijaju, a zanimljivo je to da je to napisano 2010. godine, a danas se sve vidi kako je lijepo predviđeno i kako se razvija prema najavama.

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 26 lis 2014, 20:42 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 21:39
Postovi: 58277
Lokacija: DAZP HQ
2009. su Zidovi po prvi puta pretekli Arape po stopi fertiliteta u Jeruzalemu i otad se ta razlika samo povecava u korist Zidova. Haredi ne samo da su otporni na pad stope fertiliteta nego im cak i raste u odnosu na 90-te, a oni su uglavnom zasluzni za taj obrat u Jeruzalemu.

Citat:
During 2000, the Arab TFR in Jerusalem (4.43) was higher than that of the Jews residing there (3.79). But as of 2009, Jewish TFR in Jerusalem was measured higher than the Arab TFR (2010: 4.26 vs 3.85, 2009: 4.16 vs 3.87). TFR for Arab residents in the West Bank was measured at 2.91 in 2013, while that for the Jewish residents was reported at 5.10 children per woman.


u samom Izraelu je po zadnjim podacima za 2013. stopa fertiliteta Zidova 3.05, a Arapa 3.35, a godinu prije je bilo 3.03 za Zidove i 3.54 za Arape.

_________________
"Hrvata je danas u BiH manje od 400.000, ali je naš cilj da nas je milijun", kazao je Čović.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 27 lis 2014, 11:09 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Samo je odnos izraelskog društva prema Haredijima, a i obratno:

slika

slika

slika

slika

slika

slika

slika

slika

slika

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 27 lis 2014, 11:12 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 20 sij 2012, 03:21
Postovi: 15067
Lokacija: Zagreb
Ultra-Orthodox Jews stage mass Jerusalem protest against Israeli draft law
slika

Hundreds of thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews held a mass prayer in Jerusalem on Sunday in protest at a bill that would cut their community’s military exemptions and end a tradition upheld since Israel’s foundation.

The issue is at the heart of an emotional national debate. Most Israeli Jewish men and women are called up for military service when they turn 18, but most ultra-Orthodox Jews, or “Haredim”, a Hebrew term meaning ‘those who tremble before God’, are excused from army service.

Police said hundreds of thousands took part in the prayer. Israeli media estimated that between 250,000 to 400,000 attended.

The ultra-Orthodox demonstration paralyzed parts of Jerusalem, blocked the main entrance to the city and halted public transport as the streets around swelled with streams of men in black hats and coats, the traditional Haredi garb.

Rabbis wailed prayers over loudspeakers as the standing crowds swayed back and forth, repeating a plea to God to stop the law from being passed.

“We want to show that we are united and we want to stop a bad thing that they are trying to force us into. The army is not our way of life. It is not run by our rabbis,” said 18-year-old Mordechai Seltzer.

http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/201 ... draft-law/

_________________
Do godine u Herceg Bosni. :HercegBosanac


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 27 lis 2014, 11:18 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 26 lis 2014, 09:58
Postovi: 2352
Lokacija: Република Српска/Republika Srpska
Ortodoksni Jevreji pravila ponasanja

U kvartovima Izraela u kojima žive ortodoksni Jevreji, morate da se potrudite da poštujete kodekse ponašanja. Ponašajte se skromno, jer ponekad „haredi“ (patrole skromnosti) patroliraju kvartom! Žene ne smeju da nose šortseve ili kratke suknje iznad kolena, kao ni kratke rukave. Muškarci treba da nose šešire, duge rukave i nogavice, bez obzira na vrućinu, a što je vrat pokriveniji, tim bolje. Potrebno je biti tih i ljubazan. Zgodno je i što više sakriti fotoaparat ili kameru (slikajte što neprimetnije) i kretati se u malim grupama, da ne ličite na turiste. Ako je u pitanju šabat (od petka po zalasku sunca do istog vremena i subotu), ukoliko niste veoma vični običajima, izbegavajte posetu. Ako prekršite pravila, verovatno će vikati na vas, a tada odmah napustite kvart i izbegnite sukobe.

_________________
Za dobar zivot nije rodjen svako


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 27 lis 2014, 11:46 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 26 lis 2014, 09:58
Postovi: 2352
Lokacija: Република Српска/Republika Srpska
Citat:
Netanyahu odobrio izgradnju novih jevrejskih naselja u Istočnom Jerusalemu

27.10.2014.

Izraelski premijer Benjamin Netanyahu je odobrio izgradnju novih jevrejskih naselja u Istočnom Jerusalemu koja će imati ukupno 1.060 stambenih jedinica.

Netanyahu odobrio izgradnju novih jevrejskih naselja u Istočnom Jerusalemu Benjamin Netanyahu
Izraelski radio javlja da je odlukom premijera Netanyahua odobrena izgradnja novog jevrejskog naselja Ramat Shlomo od 660 stambenih jedinica u mjestu Shu'afat i naselja Har Homa sa 400 stambenih jedinica u mjestu Abu Guneym.

I izraelska televizija Kanal 2 je sinoć objavila vijest da su premijer Netanyahu i ministar ekonomije Izraela Naftali Bennett dogovorili izgradnju novih 2.000 stambenih jedinica u nseljima na većinski palestinskoj zemlji.

Ilegalna izgradnja jevrejskih naselja na palestinskoj zemlji je jedan od najvećih problema izraelsko-palestinskog spora i glavna kočnica mirovnih pregovora između dvije strane.



Jos jedan dokaz o agresivnoj populacionoj politici

_________________
Za dobar zivot nije rodjen svako


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: Izrael i Židovi
PostPostano: 27 lis 2014, 11:58 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 17 ruj 2014, 14:43
Postovi: 248
korrisnik je napisao/la:
Zaboravljaj ti koliko hoćeš ali opet su došli sa drugog kontinenta.

Kršćani su u Svetoj zemlji bili prije nego pripadnici Muhamedovog kulta, tako da kršćani nisu došli sa "drugog kontinenta" u Svetu zemlju, nego su iz Svete zemlje širili svoju vjeru dalje. Kad je muhamedanski agresor pokucao na vrata, kršćani su tu bili puno prije tog agresora.


Vrh
   
 
Prikaži postove “stare”:  Redanje  
Započni novu temu Odgovori  [ 20402 post(ov)a ]  Stranica Prethodna  1 ... 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65 ... 817  Sljedeća

Vremenska zona: UTC + 01:00


Online

Trenutno korisnika/ca: / i 27 gostiju.


Ne možeš započinjati nove teme.
Ne možeš odgovarati na postove.
Ne možeš uređivati svoje postove.
Ne možeš izbrisati svoje postove.
Ne možeš postati privitke.

Forum(o)Bir:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Facebook 2011 By Damien Keitel
Template made by DEVPPL - HR (CRO) by Ančica Sečan
phpBB SEO