Zidovi su u hramu prinosili zrtve za pokojne za oprostenje grijeha.

Actually - no.

This is a subject which Christians, in particular, misunderstand completely - helped along by a statement in the New Testament in the book of Hebrew, that ‘without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness for sin’.

Well that’s pretty clear.

Unfortunately, it is also dead wrong.

The ancient Temple sacrificial system involved a lot of DIFFERENT sacrifices, of animals, birds, vegetables, fruits and grains - and literally NONE of them delivered ‘forgiveness of sins’. Sorry about that.

There is even ONE type of sacrifice literally CALLED a ‘sin sacrifice’, and even THAT one isn’t delivering FORGIVENESS.

And on top of that, it isn’t even one of the sacrifices that requires an animal or bird! It can be ‘satisfied’ with FLOUR.

Forgiveness, in Jewish thought, is acquired in this way:

Be sorry.

Promise to do better next time.

Try to fix whatever you did/didn’t do (the sin) which affected other people.

We call that ‘teshuvah’, meaning ‘returning to the (right) path’, but most people translate it as ‘repentance’.

God forgives people who REPENT.

Period.

It is hard to accurately explain the mindset of the whole sacrificial system, which was a common worship pattern in the ancient world. But of all the host of reasons for sacrificing, literally none of them were actually necessary for personal forgiveness for sins (you can see this idea set forth in the prophetic books, particularly Isaiah).

However, if you remember your childhood, you may remember the concept of ‘cooties’.

Invisible, immaterial and a cloud all around you, cooties were something you could ‘catch’ by being close to the object carrying cooties. Cooties are contagious.

In the Bronze and early Iron Age, at least in the Temple period form of Judaism, ‘sinning’ - by people, by the king, or just the normal incidents of daily life (for instance, touching something dead, or having a period) gathered ‘cooties’ - the Hebrew term is usually translated as ‘uncleanness’, which is a truly terrible way to translate that.

In any case, just in the course of normal life, people accumulated this ‘uncleanness’ (cooties) and ALSO the whole people as a nation did also - AND so did the altar in front of the Temple.

And ONE of the things which generated uncleanness cooties, was ‘sinning’.

And although God would FORGIVE people for their sins, the accumulated EFFECTS of those sins gathered around, like a little cloud of darkness, simply getting bigger.

AND THEREFORE, once a year, we had a HUGE Temple event, called ‘Yom Kippur’ - or ‘day of purging’, and the stuff being purged by this big ceremony was the giant cloud of cootie (uncleanness) darkness, hovering around everything and everybody, due PARTLY to normal incidents of daily life, and PARTLY due to the sins of the people of the community.

Yom Kippur (when the Temple stood) was the Day of Purging the Temple and the People, of all that accumulation of uncleanness/cooties.

So it has the theme of repentance, yes - but also the theme of renewal, and restoration, and setting thing right again.

But sin forgiveness?

No, that wasn’t part of it. HOWEVER, if you wanted this purging to be truly effective, for yourself and the community as a whole, then OF COURSE you would try to ‘fix’ yourself in advance, and seek forgiveness from everyone you have wronged, and also from God, who is offended by our offenses towards others, as well.

Which the liturgy of Yom Kippur duly lays out - ‘we have sinned against you by XYZ’ because even if you PERSONALLY didn’t do that particular sin, SOMEBODY in the community probably did, and Yom Kippur is all about the ENTIRE community - the People, and not about individuals.

So - I hope that tiny short little explanation is a bit helpful.

The Christian story on this topic has two ‘problems’ from our POV - first, truly, blood is NOT necessary for sin forgiveness, and second, everybody in the world must ask forgiveness for their OWN sins. Nobody - NOBODY - can ‘atone’ for other people. It simply doesn’t work.

Many people think the only substantive difference between Judaism and Christianity is ‘Jesus/Messiah/Son of God’ - but really, he’s almost third place in some ways. First comes:

a) the nature of man (in need of personal salvation or not? We say - not. Man is CAPABLE of choosing rightly, and is also capable of repentance when he fails - see Genesis, story of Cain and Abel).

b) the issue of sin forgiveness (repentance, restitution, and return to ‘the right path’ achieve forgiveness for sins. Nobody can die or be punished for someone else’s sins.)

c) although a lot of people would put this one first - the whole idea of a human avatar of God is simply a no-go for Judaism. Hard nope. Won’t go there. Not a thing. God is One, and God is not a man.

Problem sam vec napisao Rpbbiju, a to je da se danas pokusava Zidovsko ucenje svesti na ucenje Modernih Zidova koji su kako rekoh kroz povjest odbacivali mnoga vlastita ucenja cesto u nadi degradacije krscanstva.

Medjutim jasno znamo da se u Isusovo doba itekako o tome raspravlja i da su suprotnsti medju sektama ogromne. Tako farizeji vjeruju u besmrtnost duse u osobno spasenje tj. nagradu i kaznu, andjele itd. jer prihvacaju i usmenu predaju, dok saudiceji pod utjecajem grcke misli odbacuju usmenu te vecu pozornost daju ispunjavanju zakona, nego bavljenjem besmrtnosti, andjelima i uskrsnucem.

Iz Biblije znamo da je upravo Pavao tu razliku u vjerovanjima iskoristio kao obranu pred Sinedrijem

Kako su prihvaćali i usmenu tradiciju (i "apokrifne" spise nastale u II. i I. st. pr. Kr.), farizeji su otvoreniji za raznolike interpretacije pisanog teksta Zakona. Dok saduceji doslovno ponavljaju tekst Zakona u obredima, farizeji su usmjereni na razumijevanje njegovog značaja za svakodnevni život.

DA moze ikako ti bi konvertirao na judaizam, jelda?


Ali ne moze jbg, Moras ispasti iz zhidovske picke da bi bio zhidov, sto je po meni opet svojevrsna priroda vjerskog rasizma.

Možeš konvertirati na judaizam.

Možeš konvertirati na judaizam.

Možeš konvertirati na judaizam.

Možeš konvertirati na judaizam.

Ne piše tu ništa o besmrtnosti duše i postmortalnim kaznama za bogate i moćne.

Kod kršćanstva, piše jedino u Otkrivenju, apokaliptičnoj viziji koju je napisao neki Grk dosta kasnije i to na grčkom otoku.

99% tih stvari sa rajom, paklom, vragovima i “spasenjem” u kršćanstvu dolazi iz Otkrivenja.

Otkrivenje je zadnje nalijepljeno, nije jedno od 4 kršćanska evanđelja (Ivan koji je to napisao nije isti Ivan od jednog od 4 evanđelja), i totalno stilom odudara od bilo čega drugoga.

Upravo to je poenta teme. Mozes ali nije potrebno. Imas svrhu i bez toga. Koja je?