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Crvena Sonja · **Pridružen/a:** 11 sij 2011, 12:22 **Postovi:** 2985

Zadar1993 je napisao/la:

Isto. Nije Isus došao ukinuti Zakon već ga nadopuniti. Prije nego što se uhvatiš za ove riječi treba definirati što je Zakon. Ja kažem da je 10+2 koje dolaze direktno od Boga + sve logičke i nadahnute izvedenice iz toga.

To je to .

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 14:45 **Postovi:** 33604

Zadar1993 je napisao/la:

Mar-kan je napisao/la:

Nije samo svinjetina u pitanju,to je set zdravstvenih zakona,uputa.

Isus im govori da Bog vidi ljudsko srce,odakle potiču sve naše opačine i zla.Hrana je data kao primjer da lakše shvate,vodi ih od poznatog da bi im objasnio nepoznato...Mogao je reći i da kamenje ne onečišćuje čovjeka,ali da li je kamenje za prehranu?

A ipak nije dao uspomenu sa kamenjem nego sa hranom koja se gle čuda spominje u levitskom zakonu. Potonjeg je Isus sigurno vrlo dobro poznavao.
Bi li Bog uopće dao usporedbu koja u Njegovim očima ne stoji? Sigurno ne bi. Rekao bi onda "kao što ljude ne onečišćuje ništa,osim svinjetine, što u usta ulazi...." , ali nije to rekao nego je vrlo jasno svu hranu označio .

Da opet ponovim-hrana je tu sasvim nebitna u cijeloj toj priči,pogledaj čitavo poglavlje Markovog Evanđelja,tko je učestvovao u raspravi,tko je jeo prljavih ruku i oko čega i kako je uopće došlo do priče o hrani...Vadeći iz konteksta,ja sad mogu reći da je Isus rekao da je ,po toj logici ,sva hrana zdrava i poželjna,kao što se i radi u liberalnom kršćanstvu,pa nam se smiju na sve strane...

zlatna ribica · **Pridružen/a:** 10 stu 2013, 22:00 **Postovi:** 941

korrisnik je napisao/la:

ivan99cro je napisao/la:

zar ne bi trebalo sakcionirati ove muslimanske trolove koji vlastitu "vjeru" ne poznaju a dolaze ovdje uciti druge o njoj?

Judaizam=kršćanstvo i jedno se drugome nadopunjuje, odnosno svi stari zakoni vrijede kao i novi koji ih upotpunjuju preko Židova Isusa Krista.

.... i onda nakon 700 godina dolazi ubojica i pedofil i kaže, ne , sad ću ja vama reći sto je prava vjera i sto trebate vi ostali vjerovati...

poganska posla.

Đe se upotpunjuju.
JEvreji ne jedu krmetine kršćani se dave u krmetini.
JEvreji ne vjeruju u trojstvo kršćani vjeruju u trojstvo.
Ako niste znali jedan jevrej se može moliti u džamiji ili jedan musliman se može moliti u sinagogi jer nema kipova. I dobro ja znam Dinul- Islam.
A to za pedofil zašto je Marija začela po Duhu Svetome sa 13 godina zašto je bila u braku sa Josipom koji je imao 60 ili 90 godina :smajl025

...

Otkud ti to da je Josip imao 60 ili 90 godina? :neznam

Kolko znam nigdje se u Bibliji ne spominju Josipove godine...

Iz nekog razloga Josipa u umjetnosti uvijek prikazuju kao starijeg čovjeka, iako za to nema uporišta u evanđeljima... Kao što i Isusa prikazuju kao nekog dugokosog hipija sa eteričnim plavim očima, iako je vrlo malo vjerojatno da je stvarno tako izgledao.

Zadar1993

Mar-kan je napisao/la:

Da opet ponovim-hrana je tu sasvim nebitna u cijeloj toj priči,pogledaj čitavo poglavlje Markovog Evanđelja,tko je učestvovao u raspravi,tko je jeo prljavih ruku i oko čega i kako je uopće došlo do priče o hrani...Vadeći iz konteksta,ja sad mogu reći da je Isus rekao da je ,po toj logici ,sva hrana zdrava i poželjna,kao što se i radi u liberalnom kršćanstvu,pa nam se smiju na sve strane...

Hrana može i ne mora biti nebitna no sama činjenica da Isus čini usporedbu sa svom hranom, ne isključujući svinjetinu koja jest bila vrlo poznati tabu u judaizmu kako onda tako i sada jasno govori što misli o tom tabuu. Dakle sukus svega jest da se životinja ne treba suditi kao nešto što onečišćuje čovjeka - kako sa vjerskog, tako i sa znanstvenog stajališta (prije spomenute činjenice o svinjskom mesu) već samo ono što dolazi od ljudi.

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 14:45 **Postovi:** 33604

Crvena Sonja je napisao/la:

Uspoređivati ovce i svinje jednostavno nije moguće, jer za ispašu ovaca treba vam samo trava... to jednostavno nije podneblje za konzumaciju svinjetine. Svinja jednostavno više odgovara sjevernijim krajevima za prehranu, i držim da nije isto- jeo ti svinjetinu na +40 ili -20.

Isus je pretvarao vodu u vino, jel on promovira alkoholizam?
Isus je oprostio Mariji Magdaleni, uz upozorenje prema svima.

Dakle Bog je rekao Eskimima-ne jedite deve,antilope jer jednostavno nisu za to podneblje!? :zubati

No nebitno,ajmo dalje...

Primjer za slaninu :zubati

Citat:

Neka ovo bude zakon za sva vremena svim vašim naraštajima u kojem god mjestu budete boravili: nipošto ne smijete jesti ni loja ni krvi.

Eto,postavila si pitanje-da li Isus promovira alkoholizam?Previše je takav Isus liberalan za moj ukus,da promovira otrov koji je napravio toliko zla.Alkohol je uništio milijune ljudi,obitelji i djece na ovoj planeti.Umjesto da nađemo život na oltaru,mi nalazimo smrt i opravdanje za alkohol?....pa da pogledamo što kaže "original",što se pod tim podrazumijeva.

Termin vino podrazumijeva iscjeđeni sok od grožđa,"nepokvaren" (bez vrenja) ili "pokvaren".Hebrejski ima 2 riječi koje pojašnjavaju što je vino-"tirosh" ili "sok iz grožđa", i "jajin" ili iscjeđeni sok.

Knjiga Postanka spominje taj izraz npr.:

Citat:

Kako sam u ruci držao faraonov pehar, uzmem grožđa, istiještim ga u faraonov pehar, a onda stavim pehar u faraonovu ruku.

Isus jeste oprostio Mariji M.,ali na kraju vremena biće ljudi kao pijeska koje će Isus da uništi i kojima neće biti oprošteno,kad će Mu haljine biti krvave od "gaženja" zlikovaca...

korrisnik

Crvena Sonja je napisao/la:

Zadar1993 je napisao/la:

Isto. Nije Isus došao ukinuti Zakon već ga nadopuniti. Prije nego što se uhvatiš za ove riječi treba definirati što je Zakon. Ja kažem da je 10+2 koje dolaze direktno od Boga + sve logičke i nadahnute izvedenice iz toga.

To je to .

Ja mislio 5 ≠ 17÷3

korrisnik

zlatna ribica je napisao/la:

korrisnik je napisao/la:

Đe se upotpunjuju.
JEvreji ne jedu krmetine kršćani se dave u krmetini.
JEvreji ne vjeruju u trojstvo kršćani vjeruju u trojstvo.
Ako niste znali jedan jevrej se može moliti u džamiji ili jedan musliman se može moliti u sinagogi jer nema kipova. I dobro ja znam Dinul- Islam.
A to za pedofil zašto je Marija začela po Duhu Svetome sa 13 godina zašto je bila u braku sa Josipom koji je imao 60 ili 90 godina :smajl025

...

Otkud ti to da je Josip imao 60 ili 90 godina? :neznam

Kolko znam nigdje se u Bibliji ne spominju Josipove godine...

Iz nekog razloga Josipa u umjetnosti uvijek prikazuju kao starijeg čovjeka, iako za to nema uporišta u evanđeljima... Kao što i Isusa prikazuju kao nekog dugokosog hipija sa eteričnim plavim očima, iako je vrlo malo vjerojatno da je stvarno tako izgledao.

Catholic Encyclopaedia says:

“When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, “the Lord’s brother”). A year after his wife’s death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.” [6]

One thing needs to be remembered, although they say that she was 12 years old when she was betrothed to 90 year old Joseph, most Christians of today reject that story, because Joseph would be labelled a ‘paedophile’. As we will examine shortly, you will see that most early Church fathers believed Mary was very young girl when she married Joseph, Joseph who was at least 80 to 90 years old at the time.

‘History of Joseph the Carpenter’ also confirms that Mary was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. Chapter 3 and 4 says:

3. Now when righteous Joseph became a widower, my mother Mary, blessed, holy, and pure, was already twelve years old. For her parents offered her in the temple when she was three years of age, and she remained in the temple of the Lord nine years. Then when the priests saw that the virgin, holy and God-fearing, was growing up, they spoke to each other, saying: Let us search out a man, righteous and pious, to whom Mary may be entrusted until the time of her marriage; lest, if she remain in the temple, it happen to her as is wont to happen to women, and lest on that account we sin, and God be angry with us.

4. Therefore they immediately sent out, and assembled twelve old men of the tribe of Judah. And they wrote down the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. And the lot fell upon the pious old man, righteous Joseph. Then the priests answered, and said to my blessed mother: Go with Joseph, and be with him till the time of your marriage. Righteous Joseph therefore received my mother, and led her away to his own house. And Mary found James the Less in his father’s house, broken-hearted and sad on account of the loss of his mother, and she brought him up. Hence Mary was called the mother of James. Luke 24:10 Thereafter Joseph left her at home, and went away to the shop where he wrought at his trade of a carpenter. And after the holy virgin had spent two years in his house her age was exactly fourteen years, including the time at which he received her. [7]

Infancy Gospel of James also says she was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. See the link here:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... berts.html

2. Marriage in Ancient Jewish times

One must remember in Ancient Israelite times once a girl was betrothed, sexual intimacy was allowed, there was no law against that, nor does the Bible say against it. So, for Mary to be betrothed, it did not mean that Joseph and Mary could not get intimate together. Here is an article I have written already on Ancient Jewish Marriages.

Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times

3. Experts agree that Joseph was a very old man

De Robigne Mortimer Bennett says:

“The following ‘Facts about virgin Mary’ are taken from one of the Apocryphal gospels- the ‘History of Joseph the Carpenter,’ a book that was popular and believed to be genuine in the so-called Evangelical of the Church. It is reproduced here from the ‘Revelations of Antichrist:’ Joseph was a widower with four sons and two daughters, all married but James and Judas. Joseph was a Priest as well as a Carpenter, but lived mostly by the latter trade. Mary had been brought up in the temple till she was twelve years old, when the priests sought to intrust her to the care of some pious old man who wanted a wife. So they assembled twelve old men, who raffled for Mary. The ex-priest and carpenter won and was betrothed to her at once, the marriage to be postponed until she reached a suitable age. But he took her to his house and kept her two years, when she became a mother by the Holy Ghost.

When Joseph discovered the condition Mary was in he became sorely troubled, and could not eat or drink for a whole day. He thought of hushing up the scandal by putting her away secretly. (It is not said whether he suspected his son James, who was most tenderly attached to his prospective step-mother. When she first came she found him broken-hearted at the recent loss of his own mother, but the advent of a lovely maiden, who, though some years his junior, assumed the relations of a mother to him, soon assuaged his grief; and she, caring for him as a loving step-mother knows how, became known as ‘the mother of James,’ even before she became a wife to his father. The absence of Joseph, who had to be away at work at his trade, to say nothing of his age, which was then ninety-two, no doubt tended to strengthen the ties between the son and the female guardian.) Joseph was not long left to remain in trouble about the condition of Mary. In the Midst of his distress he fell asleep at noonday, and had a dream, in which Gabriel appeared to him and explained the mystery of the Immaculate Conception. That was enough; happiness was restored. The angelic friend had tied up the storm. The far-off magi made haste to welcome the new-born king of the Jews. But the wicked Herod was wroth with them for not telling where the infant was, so he might go and worship him also. Jesus grew up and worked with his reputed father Joseph at the Carpenter trade, and lived in sweet accord with his two half-brothers, until the death of their father Joseph, who lived to the ripe age of 111 years. These statements should undoubtedly be taken with many grains of allowance.” [8]

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 14:45 **Postovi:** 33604

Zadar1993 je napisao/la:

Mar-kan je napisao/la:

Da opet ponovim-hrana je tu sasvim nebitna u cijeloj toj priči,pogledaj čitavo poglavlje Markovog Evanđelja,tko je učestvovao u raspravi,tko je jeo prljavih ruku i oko čega i kako je uopće došlo do priče o hrani...Vadeći iz konteksta,ja sad mogu reći da je Isus rekao da je ,po toj logici ,sva hrana zdrava i poželjna,kao što se i radi u liberalnom kršćanstvu,pa nam se smiju na sve strane...

Hrana može i ne mora biti nebitna no sama činjenica da Isus čini usporedbu sa svom hranom, ne isključujući svinjetinu koja jest bila vrlo poznati tabu u judaizmu kako onda tako i sada jasno govori što misli o tom tabuu. Dakle sukus svega jest da se životinja ne treba suditi kao nešto što onečišćuje čovjeka - kako sa vjerskog, tako i sa znanstvenog stajališta (prije spomenute činjenice o svinjskom mesu) već samo ono što dolazi od ljudi.

Ok,shvatio sam te-tamo piše u istom poglavlju (ako ćemo sve vaditi izvan konteksta) da trebamo jesti i prljavih ruku,jer i apostoli su jeli tako :zubati

Kakav sukus,kakvi bakrači?Vjernici slobodno mogu da puše i cigare,nigdje u Bibliji ne piše da je zabranjeno :zubati

Očigledne zemaljske stvari nisu jasne,kako onda da razumijemo nebeske...

Dakle,Isus polemiše sa farizejima,koji se drže predaje kao pijani plota,a u srcima im jad i bijeda...Isus ih nazva okrečenim grobovima,i ukazuje im na njihovo licemjerstvo...

Citat:

Skupe se oko njega farizeji i neki od pismoznanaca koji dođoše iz Jeruzalema.
I opaze da neki njegovi učenici jedu kruh nečistih, to jest neopranih ruku.
A farizeji i svi Židovi ne jedu ako prije temeljito ne operu ruke; drže se predaje starih.
Niti s trga što jedu ako prije ne operu. Mnogo toga još ima što zbog predaje drže: pranje čaša, vrčeva i lonaca.
Zato farizeji i pismoznanci upitaju Isusa: "Zašto tvoji učenici ne postupaju po predaji starih, nego nečistih ruku blaguju?
A on im reče: "Dobro prorokova Izaija o vama, licemjeri, kad napisa: Ovaj me narod usnama časti, a srce mu je daleko od mene.
Uzalud me štuju naučavajući nauke - uredbe ljudske.
Napustili ste zapovijed Božju, a držite se predaje ljudske.
Još im govoraše: "Lijepo! Dokidate Božju zapovijed da biste sačuvali svoju predaju.
Mojsije doista reče: Poštuj oca svoga i majku svoju. I: Tko prokune oca ili majku, smrću neka se kazni.
A vi velite: `Rekne li tko ocu ili majci: Pomoć koja te od mene ide neka bude `korban`, to jest sveti dar`,
takvome više ne dopuštate ništa učiniti za oca ili majku.
Tako dokidate riječ Božju svojom predajom, koju sami sebi predadoste. I još štošta tomu slično činite.
Tada ponovno dozove mnoštvo i stane govoriti: "Poslušajte me svi i razumijte!
Ništa što izvana ulazi u čovjeka ne može ga onečistiti, nego što iz čovjeka izlazi - to ga onečišćuje.
Tko ima uši da čuje, neka čuje!
I kad od mnoštva uđe u kuću, upitaše ga učenici za prispodobu.
I reče im: "Tako? Ni vi ne razumijete? Ne shvaćate li da čovjeka ne može onečistiti što u nj ulazi
jer mu ne ulazi u srce, nego u utrobu te izlazi u zahod?" Tako on očisti sva jela.
Još dometnu: "Što iz čovjeka izlazi, te onečišćuje čovjeka.
Ta iznutra, iz srca čovječjega, izlaze zle namisli, bludništva, krađe, ubojstva,
preljubi, lakomstva, opakosti, prijevara, razuzdanost, zlo oko, psovka, uznositost, bezumlje.
Sva ta zla iznutra izlaze i onečišćuju čovjeka.

Zadar1993

Rekao je da jesti prljavih ruku-čovjeka ne onečišćuje odnosno nije grijeh, isto kao ni jesti neku hranu(uključujući i svinjetinu) vrlo jednostavno. Nije rekao da je nešto zdravstveno ispravno ili nije jer se Isus time ne bavi, on je liječnik duše a ne tijela kako je i sam naglasio više puta. Dobro ti je rekla Sonja da kompliciraš tamo gdje ne treba. Ne zanima me sada zašto kori farizeje.

zlatna ribica · **Pridružen/a:** 10 stu 2013, 22:00 **Postovi:** 941

korrisnik je napisao/la:

zlatna ribica je napisao/la:

Otkud ti to da je Josip imao 60 ili 90 godina? :neznam

Kolko znam nigdje se u Bibliji ne spominju Josipove godine...

Iz nekog razloga Josipa u umjetnosti uvijek prikazuju kao starijeg čovjeka, iako za to nema uporišta u evanđeljima... Kao što i Isusa prikazuju kao nekog dugokosog hipija sa eteričnim plavim očima, iako je vrlo malo vjerojatno da je stvarno tako izgledao.

Catholic Encyclopaedia says:

“When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, “the Lord’s brother”). A year after his wife’s death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.” [6]

One thing needs to be remembered, although they say that she was 12 years old when she was betrothed to 90 year old Joseph, most Christians of today reject that story, because Joseph would be labelled a ‘paedophile’. As we will examine shortly, you will see that most early Church fathers believed Mary was very young girl when she married Joseph, Joseph who was at least 80 to 90 years old at the time.

‘History of Joseph the Carpenter’ also confirms that Mary was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. Chapter 3 and 4 says:

3. Now when righteous Joseph became a widower, my mother Mary, blessed, holy, and pure, was already twelve years old. For her parents offered her in the temple when she was three years of age, and she remained in the temple of the Lord nine years. Then when the priests saw that the virgin, holy and God-fearing, was growing up, they spoke to each other, saying: Let us search out a man, righteous and pious, to whom Mary may be entrusted until the time of her marriage; lest, if she remain in the temple, it happen to her as is wont to happen to women, and lest on that account we sin, and God be angry with us.

4. Therefore they immediately sent out, and assembled twelve old men of the tribe of Judah. And they wrote down the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. And the lot fell upon the pious old man, righteous Joseph. Then the priests answered, and said to my blessed mother: Go with Joseph, and be with him till the time of your marriage. Righteous Joseph therefore received my mother, and led her away to his own house. And Mary found James the Less in his father’s house, broken-hearted and sad on account of the loss of his mother, and she brought him up. Hence Mary was called the mother of James. Luke 24:10 Thereafter Joseph left her at home, and went away to the shop where he wrought at his trade of a carpenter. And after the holy virgin had spent two years in his house her age was exactly fourteen years, including the time at which he received her. [7]

Infancy Gospel of James also says she was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. See the link here:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... berts.html

2. Marriage in Ancient Jewish times

One must remember in Ancient Israelite times once a girl was betrothed, sexual intimacy was allowed, there was no law against that, nor does the Bible say against it. So, for Mary to be betrothed, it did not mean that Joseph and Mary could not get intimate together. Here is an article I have written already on Ancient Jewish Marriages.

Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times

3. Experts agree that Joseph was a very old man

De Robigne Mortimer Bennett says:

“The following ‘Facts about virgin Mary’ are taken from one of the Apocryphal gospels- the ‘History of Joseph the Carpenter,’ a book that was popular and believed to be genuine in the so-called Evangelical of the Church. It is reproduced here from the ‘Revelations of Antichrist:’ Joseph was a widower with four sons and two daughters, all married but James and Judas. Joseph was a Priest as well as a Carpenter, but lived mostly by the latter trade. Mary had been brought up in the temple till she was twelve years old, when the priests sought to intrust her to the care of some pious old man who wanted a wife. So they assembled twelve old men, who raffled for Mary. The ex-priest and carpenter won and was betrothed to her at once, the marriage to be postponed until she reached a suitable age. But he took her to his house and kept her two years, when she became a mother by the Holy Ghost.

When Joseph discovered the condition Mary was in he became sorely troubled, and could not eat or drink for a whole day. He thought of hushing up the scandal by putting her away secretly. (It is not said whether he suspected his son James, who was most tenderly attached to his prospective step-mother. When she first came she found him broken-hearted at the recent loss of his own mother, but the advent of a lovely maiden, who, though some years his junior, assumed the relations of a mother to him, soon assuaged his grief; and she, caring for him as a loving step-mother knows how, became known as ‘the mother of James,’ even before she became a wife to his father. The absence of Joseph, who had to be away at work at his trade, to say nothing of his age, which was then ninety-two, no doubt tended to strengthen the ties between the son and the female guardian.) Joseph was not long left to remain in trouble about the condition of Mary. In the Midst of his distress he fell asleep at noonday, and had a dream, in which Gabriel appeared to him and explained the mystery of the Immaculate Conception. That was enough; happiness was restored. The angelic friend had tied up the storm. The far-off magi made haste to welcome the new-born king of the Jews. But the wicked Herod was wroth with them for not telling where the infant was, so he might go and worship him also. Jesus grew up and worked with his reputed father Joseph at the Carpenter trade, and lived in sweet accord with his two half-brothers, until the death of their father Joseph, who lived to the ripe age of 111 years. These statements should undoubtedly be taken with many grains of allowance.” [8]

Znači 100-godišnji Josip je putovao pješice stotine milja kako bi prijavio Isusovo rođenje, bježao s njim u Egipat?

Ne postoje nikakvi povijesni izvori koji bi potvđivali da je bio tako star.

Pantagana · **Pridružen/a:** 27 lip 2012, 01:19 **Postovi:** 2133

prije bih se odrekao kršćanstva nego slanine

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 14:45 **Postovi:** 33604

Zadar1993 je napisao/la:

Nije rekao da je nešto zdravstveno ispravno ili nije jer se Isus time ne bavi, on je liječnik duše a ne tijela kako je i sam naglasio više puta. Dobro ti je rekla Sonja da kompliciraš tamo gdje ne treba. Ne zanima me sada zašto kori farizeje.

Nije točno!

1.Ako je Isus Bog-tko je dao zdravstvene zakone Mojsiju?

2.Pogledaj pojedinačno koga je Isus sve ozdravio,pa se sam uvjeri da je Isus liječnik i tijela i duše,jer ta dva pojma su neodvojiva...

Dakle,Bog daje točna uputstva što je za hranu,i mi pametujemo o tome?Mani me takve liberalne teologije.Sonja je dobronamjerna,ali kao i ti pravi neke "teološke" greške,uzrokovane liberalnim shvatanjem kršćanstva.

Ali odosmo sa teme.

dudu

ako prsut nije hrana za bogove onda ne znam sta je.

Zadar1993

Isus nikad ne liječi primarno tijelo već ljudsku dušu, a na to se onda vezuje i zdravstveno ozdravljenje, nikad kao primarno. Mojsijevi zdravstveni zakoni su većinom uzrokovani kulturološkim naslijeđem toga naroda,osim toga neke stvari i nisu zdravstveno ispravne po tom zakonu - zabrana jedenja svinja na uštrb janjaca, ovčetine i inih mesa je uzrokovala veći kolesterol i povećanu vjerojatnost srčanih udara. Naravno, ne isključujem mogućnost da je veći dio tih zdravstvenih zakona bio nadahnut ili izvedenica temeljnih 10 zakona (i kasnijih 2) ali kod svinjetine, pogotovo u svjetlu prije spomenutih Isusovih riječi to ne mogu zaključiti.

PCM

O Allahu dragi kakva rasprava ... Vratimo se na Izrael.
I pršut :)

PCM

Genijalci

korrisnik

zlatna ribica je napisao/la:

korrisnik je napisao/la:

Catholic Encyclopaedia says:

“When forty years of age, Joseph married a woman called Melcha or Escha by some, Salome by others; they lived forty-nine years together and had six children, two daughters and four sons, the youngest of whom was James (the Less, “the Lord’s brother”). A year after his wife’s death, as the priests announced through Judea that they wished to find in the tribe of Juda a respectable man to espouse Mary, then twelve to fourteen years of age. Joseph, who was at the time ninety years old, went up to Jerusalem among the candidates; a miracle manifested the choice God had made of Joseph, and two years later the Annunciation took place.” [6]

One thing needs to be remembered, although they say that she was 12 years old when she was betrothed to 90 year old Joseph, most Christians of today reject that story, because Joseph would be labelled a ‘paedophile’. As we will examine shortly, you will see that most early Church fathers believed Mary was very young girl when she married Joseph, Joseph who was at least 80 to 90 years old at the time.

‘History of Joseph the Carpenter’ also confirms that Mary was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. Chapter 3 and 4 says:

3. Now when righteous Joseph became a widower, my mother Mary, blessed, holy, and pure, was already twelve years old. For her parents offered her in the temple when she was three years of age, and she remained in the temple of the Lord nine years. Then when the priests saw that the virgin, holy and God-fearing, was growing up, they spoke to each other, saying: Let us search out a man, righteous and pious, to whom Mary may be entrusted until the time of her marriage; lest, if she remain in the temple, it happen to her as is wont to happen to women, and lest on that account we sin, and God be angry with us.

4. Therefore they immediately sent out, and assembled twelve old men of the tribe of Judah. And they wrote down the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. And the lot fell upon the pious old man, righteous Joseph. Then the priests answered, and said to my blessed mother: Go with Joseph, and be with him till the time of your marriage. Righteous Joseph therefore received my mother, and led her away to his own house. And Mary found James the Less in his father’s house, broken-hearted and sad on account of the loss of his mother, and she brought him up. Hence Mary was called the mother of James. Luke 24:10 Thereafter Joseph left her at home, and went away to the shop where he wrought at his trade of a carpenter. And after the holy virgin had spent two years in his house her age was exactly fourteen years, including the time at which he received her. [7]

Infancy Gospel of James also says she was 12 years old when betrothed to Joseph. See the link here:
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... berts.html

2. Marriage in Ancient Jewish times

One must remember in Ancient Israelite times once a girl was betrothed, sexual intimacy was allowed, there was no law against that, nor does the Bible say against it. So, for Mary to be betrothed, it did not mean that Joseph and Mary could not get intimate together. Here is an article I have written already on Ancient Jewish Marriages.

Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times

3. Experts agree that Joseph was a very old man

De Robigne Mortimer Bennett says:

“The following ‘Facts about virgin Mary’ are taken from one of the Apocryphal gospels- the ‘History of Joseph the Carpenter,’ a book that was popular and believed to be genuine in the so-called Evangelical of the Church. It is reproduced here from the ‘Revelations of Antichrist:’ Joseph was a widower with four sons and two daughters, all married but James and Judas. Joseph was a Priest as well as a Carpenter, but lived mostly by the latter trade. Mary had been brought up in the temple till she was twelve years old, when the priests sought to intrust her to the care of some pious old man who wanted a wife. So they assembled twelve old men, who raffled for Mary. The ex-priest and carpenter won and was betrothed to her at once, the marriage to be postponed until she reached a suitable age. But he took her to his house and kept her two years, when she became a mother by the Holy Ghost.

When Joseph discovered the condition Mary was in he became sorely troubled, and could not eat or drink for a whole day. He thought of hushing up the scandal by putting her away secretly. (It is not said whether he suspected his son James, who was most tenderly attached to his prospective step-mother. When she first came she found him broken-hearted at the recent loss of his own mother, but the advent of a lovely maiden, who, though some years his junior, assumed the relations of a mother to him, soon assuaged his grief; and she, caring for him as a loving step-mother knows how, became known as ‘the mother of James,’ even before she became a wife to his father. The absence of Joseph, who had to be away at work at his trade, to say nothing of his age, which was then ninety-two, no doubt tended to strengthen the ties between the son and the female guardian.) Joseph was not long left to remain in trouble about the condition of Mary. In the Midst of his distress he fell asleep at noonday, and had a dream, in which Gabriel appeared to him and explained the mystery of the Immaculate Conception. That was enough; happiness was restored. The angelic friend had tied up the storm. The far-off magi made haste to welcome the new-born king of the Jews. But the wicked Herod was wroth with them for not telling where the infant was, so he might go and worship him also. Jesus grew up and worked with his reputed father Joseph at the Carpenter trade, and lived in sweet accord with his two half-brothers, until the death of their father Joseph, who lived to the ripe age of 111 years. These statements should undoubtedly be taken with many grains of allowance.” [8]

Znači 100-godišnji Josip je putovao pješice stotine milja kako bi prijavio Isusovo rođenje, bježao s njim u Egipat?

Ne postoje nikakvi povijesni izvori koji bi potvđivali da je bio tako star.

To su kršćanski izvori nisu muslimanski.

korrisnik

PCM je napisao/la:

Genijalci

Cionisti cionizam ima logike. :rigam

dudu

PCM je napisao/la:

O Allahu dragi kakva rasprava ... Vratimo se na Izrael.
I pršut :)

zamisljam da u raju sjedimo za stolom, mezimo i pjevamo Zapivajmo nocas u konobi... :zivili

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 14:45 **Postovi:** 33604

dudu je napisao/la:

PCM je napisao/la:

O Allahu dragi kakva rasprava ... Vratimo se na Izrael.
I pršut :)

zamisljam da u raju sjedimo za stolom, mezimo i pjevamo Zapivajmo nocas u konobi... :zivili

Mezimo smokve,nisam siguran da će biti mesnica i svinjokolja :zubati

i_jopet · **Pridružen/a:** 12 lis 2009, 17:44 **Postovi:** 8577

korrisnik je napisao/la:

Cionisti cionizam ima logike. :rigam

Znaš li tko su cionisti?

korrisnik

i_jopet je napisao/la:

korrisnik je napisao/la:

Cionisti cionizam ima logike. :rigam

Znaš li tko su cionisti?

Jevreji koji hoće čisti Izrel bez i jednog neJevrejina u njemu. Etnički čist Izrael.

i_jopet · **Pridružen/a:** 12 lis 2009, 17:44 **Postovi:** 8577

korrisnik je napisao/la:

i_jopet je napisao/la:

Znaš li tko su cionisti?

Jevreji koji hoće čisti Izrel bez i jednog neJevrejina u njemu. Etnički čist Izrael.

Cionisti žele stvoriti državu Izrael jer u vrijeme ideje cionizma Izrael još nije postojao, to nema veze sa etnički čistim Izraelom.

korrisnik

i_jopet je napisao/la:

korrisnik je napisao/la:

Jevreji koji hoće čisti Izrel bez i jednog neJevrejina u njemu. Etnički čist Izrael.

Cionisti žele stvoriti državi Izrael, to nema veze sa etnički čistim Izraelom.

Pa imaju Izrael.

i_jopet · **Pridružen/a:** 12 lis 2009, 17:44 **Postovi:** 8577

korrisnik je napisao/la:

i_jopet je napisao/la:

Cionisti žele stvoriti državi Izrael, to nema veze sa etnički čistim Izraelom.

Pa imaju Izrael.

Nisu imali kada je ideja cionizma rađana.

HercegBosna.org

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