Treba prvo pročitati katekizam (više puta) da bih se prihvatio Biblije.

Zato i imamo milijun denominacija...Nije Bog pisao katekizme, koliko sam upućen

Jesi čitao temu od početka? Imaš linkove, rasprave...prije svega pročitati Bibliju.

Btw, što je onda, po tebi, Isus Krist?

…57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and You have seen Abraham?” 58 “Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple area.…

John 8:57-59

27 They did not understand that He was telling them about the Father. 28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He...

John 8:27-28

14 Jesus replied, “Even if I testify about Myself, My testimony is valid, because I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know where I came from or where I am going. 15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one. 16 But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone; I am with the Father who sent Me.e 17 Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid.f 18 I am One who testifies about Myself, and the Father, who sent Me, also testifies about Me.”

19 “Where is Your Father?” they asked Him.

“You do not know Me or My Father,” Jesus answered. “If you knew Me, you would know My Father as well.”

John 8:14-19

30 I and the Father are one.” 31 At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him

John 10:30-31

4 I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

John 17:4-5

John 8:24 Jesus states: "For unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins"

The word of the LORD came to me, saying,

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Čak i u evanđelju po Ivanu, kaže se:


John 1:1

Tu nema elemenata trojstva.

18 But Jesus came near and spoke to them; All authority in heaven and on earth, he said, has been given to me; 19 you, therefore, must go out, making disciples of all nations, and baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, 20 teaching them to observe all the commandments which I have given you. And behold I am with you all through the days that are coming, until the consummation of the world.

31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit down upon the throne of his glory, 32 and all nations will be gathered in his presence, where he will divide men one from the other, as the shepherd divides the sheep from the goats; 33 he will set the sheep on his right, and the goats on his left. 34 Then the King will say to those who are on his right hand, Come, you that have received a blessing from my Father, take possession of the kingdom which has been prepared for you since the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave me food, thirsty, and you gave me drink; I was a stranger, and you brought me home, 36 naked, and you clothed me, sick, and you cared for me, a prisoner, and you came to me. 37 Whereupon the just will answer, Lord, when was it that we saw thee hungry, and fed thee, or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When was it that we saw thee a stranger, and brought thee home, or naked, and clothed thee? 39 When was it that we saw thee sick or in prison and came to thee? 40 And the King will answer them, Believe me, when you did it to one of the least of my brethren here, you did it to me. 41 Then he will say to those who are on his left hand, in their turn, Go far from me, you that are accursed, into that eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry, and you never gave me food, I was thirsty, and you never gave me drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not bring me home, I was naked, and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison, and you did not care for me. 44 Whereupon they, in their turn, will answer, Lord, when was it that we saw thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? 45 And he will answer them, Believe me, when you refused it to one of the least of my brethren here, you refused it to me. 46 And these shall pass on to eternal punishment, and the just to eternal life.

30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will be seen in heaven; then it is that all the tribes of the land will mourn,[5] and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven, with great power and glory; 31 and he will send out his angels with a loud blast of the trumpet, to gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.[6]

18 No man has ever seen God; but now his only-begotten Son, who abides in the bosom of the Father, has himself become our interpreter.[4]

8 At this, Philip said to him, Lord, let us see the Father; that is all we ask. 9 What, Philip, Jesus said to him, here am I, who have been all this while in your company; hast thou not learned to recognize me yet? Whoever has seen me, has seen the Father; what dost thou mean by saying, Let us see the Father? 10 Do you not believe[2] that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? The words I speak to you are not my own words; and the Father, who dwells continually in me, achieves in me his own acts of power. 11 If you cannot trust my word, when I tell you that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me

21 just as the Father bids the dead rise up and gives them life, so the Son gives life to whomsoever he will. 22 So it is with judgement; the Father, instead of passing judgement on any man himself, has left all judgement to the Son, 23 so that all may reverence the Son just as they reverence the Father; to deny reverence to the Son is to deny reverence to the Father who has sent him.

9 Thou canst find salvation, if thou wilt use thy lips to confess that Jesus is the Lord, and thy heart to believe that God has raised him up from the dead.

5 Yours is to be the same mind which Christ Jesus shewed. 6 His nature is, from the first, divine, and yet he did not see, in the rank of Godhead, a prize to be coveted;[1]

Trebaće mi dan dva za smisleniji odgovor, moram prvo pažljivo sve pročitati pa ti (vam) šaljem odgovor. Ništa kraći.

Teško je dati izbalansirani odgovor na to pitanje, osobito nakon više od dvije tisuće godina. U stranu koliko sam ja osobno kao vjernik bio uplašen vlastitom sumnjom, zabrinut, razočaran... Ali kraj svake zablude otvara neke nove i realne horizonte u životu. A mislim da je i realan horizont koji ne daje nikakva obećanja bolji od vraćanja u nešto u čemu više ne prepoznaješ istinu.

No da se vratim na tvoje pitanje, mislim da je nužnije poći od onog što Krist nije. U Novom zavjetu Isus se (nekome) obraća preko 18,000 puta, imao je 18 tisuća prilika reći "ljudi, ja sam Bog vaš!". Ništa slično nije kazao, dapače. On je često čak tražio da ljudi šute o njegovom prisustvu i djelovanju.



Mislim da je bio izrazito skroman i produhovljen čovjek, i da je velik u Božijim očima za sve što je na zemlji činio. Dakle, moje duboko poštivanje prema Kristu nije netragom nestalo. Ali ako ćemo suditi po onome kako je sebe vidio i što je drugima govorio, on svakako nije bio Bog.

Vjerujem da je Bog kroz povijest slao naročite ljude, kojima je prije svega narod Izrailja vraćao na ispravan put i jednome Bogu. Mislim da je to bila i njegova misija.


Rasprave, naravno... Ovo je samo dio materijala koji sam obradio (pauza/nađi stih/nastavi).



"Jesus is not the Father - He Reveals the Father" - by Joel Hemphill and J. Dan Gill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39IwtCuGmac

Five Major Problems With The Trinity | Sean Finnegan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qxvmP-NzN4

The day Jesus denied he was God - and the later cover-up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxrerjcWHg4

How and Why Did Jesus’ Disciples Corrupt the Jewish Scriptures? Rabbi Tovia Singer Responds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_34HPyxaac

Kad malo sredim nove izvore, postam još pa neka svako donese svoje zaključke i odluke u životu.
Tako je najbolje.

Isaiah 63:10 (NASB) But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He (Yahweh) turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.[17] (emphasis added)

There is no text in the NT that clearly or even probably affirms the personality of the Holy Spirit through the route of Greek grammar….the grammatical basis for the Holy Spirit’s personality is lacking in the New Testament, yet this is frequently, if not usually, the first line of defense of the doctrine of many evangelical writers. But if grammar cannot legitimately be used to support the Spirit’s personality, then perhaps we need to reexamine the rest of our basis for this theological commitment. [19] (emphasis added)

The word emptied in Greek is kenoô, and it means to make empty, void, of no effect, to nullify, render vain, useless.[22] Whatever being in the form of God means, the text explains that Jesus emptied Himself of it in order to become a bond-servant. If, according to Trinitarians, being in the form of God refers to Jesus’ divine nature, then it follows that he had to empty himself of this nature in some sense in order to take on the form of a bond servant. Trinitarians are divided as to just how Jesus could have emptied himself of his divine nature, or possibly set aside his divine attributes, and yet still be God. As one Trinitarian minister explains, it’s an impossibility:

Jesus did not give up any of his divine attributes at the incarnation. He remained in full possession of all of them. For if he were to ever give up any of his divine attributes, he would cease being God.[23]

The preponderance of the Biblical evidence is that Jesus is not God, for there is only one God whom Scripture repeatedly and emphatically declares to be the Father.[32] Paul’s purpose in writing was to exhort believers in Philippi to humble themselves and consider others more important, just as Jesus had done.[33] Although Jesus, as the Messiah, was functionally equal with God, he chose to serve God and mankind by taking on sin, that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.[34]

In Christian theology, the gender of the Holy Spirit has been the subject of some debate in recent times.

The grammatical gender of the word for "spirit" is feminine in Hebrew (רוּחַ, rūaḥ),[1] neuter in Greek (πνεῦμα, pneûma) and masculine in Latin (spiritus). The neuter Greek πνεῦμα is used in the Septuagint to translate the Hebrew רוּחַ. The pronouns used to address the Holy Spirit, however, are masculine.

Wallace concludes that "it is difficult to find any text in which πνευμα is grammatically referred to with the masculine gender".

For Semitic languages, such as ancient Syriac, the earliest liturgical tradition and established gender usage for referring to the Holy Spirit is feminine.[14]

The Syriac language, which was in common use around AD 300, is derived from Aramaic. In documents produced in Syriac by the early Miaphysite church (which later became the Syriac Orthodox Church) the feminine gender of the word for spirit gave rise to a theology in which the Holy Spirit was considered feminine.

Samim tim ni tri čovjeka koja su posjetila Abrahama, nisu bila Trojstvo. Pojavila bi se dva čovjeka i jedna žena da je tako... Već sam naveo da su to jedino mogli biti ili obični ljudi ili anđeli, jer ženskih anđela u Svetom pismu nigdje nema..

Vi shvaćate da ste politeisti, samo to odbijate tako shvaćati?

Odgovorite si na pitanje koliko % vremena se molite glavnom Bogu (nazovimo ga Jahve), a koliko svima ostalima.

Koja Biblija?

Ima puno Biblija.

Vi shvaćate da ste politeisti, samo to odbijate tako shvaćati?

Odgovorite si na pitanje koliko % vremena se molite glavnom Bogu (nazovimo ga Jahve), a koliko svima ostalima.

Katolici su tu notorno u krivu. Kult Djevice Marije nije daleko za Kristom. Da ne pričam o molitvama zahvalnicama Svetome Antunu...

Meni ta katolička hijerarhija liči na nekakav Olimp, a ako pođemo od toga da Krist nije Bog, niko se Bogu praktično u kršćanskom svijetu ne moli izravno.

Već se šalju puškice, kao na času...

Evanđelje po Marku 6

1 I otišavši odande, dođe u svoj zavičaj. A doprate ga učenici. 2I kada dođe subota, poče učiti u sinagogi. I mnogi što su ga slušali preneraženi govorahu: Odakle to ovome? Kakva li mu je mudrost dana? I kakva se to silna djela događaju po njegovim rukama? 3 Nije li ovo drvodjelja, sin Marijin, i brat Jakovljev, i Josipov, i Judin, i Šimunov? I nisu li mu sestre ovdje među nama? I sablažnjavahu se o njega. 4 A Isus im govoraše: Nije prorok bez časti doli u svom zavičaju i među rodbinom i u svom domu. 5 I ne mogaše ondje učiniti ni jedno čudo, osim što ozdravi nekoliko nemoćnika stavivši ruke na njih. 6 I čudio se njihovoj nevjeri. Obilazio je selima uokolo i naučavao.