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 Naslov: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 19:29 
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This shit doesn't quite add up. Can someone enlighten me?

According to the 2013 census in B&H the Croat population is 544,780. There could be more residing in some places in Republika Srpska but not anymore than a few thousand at best. Also there’s some evidence to suggest that Croat numbers were not fully counted in the Herzegovina-Neretva canton (in particular Mostar) as to not declare an official majority in Mostar due to political reasons.

For example in 2008 the number of voters in the Croat portions of Mostar were 53,917 registered voters. The population of Croats counted in 2013 was 51,216.

Here we have more registered voters in Croat portions of Mostar than actual Croats. While its true some can be Bosniaks or even Serbs, the vast majority of these voters voted for Croat parties. Registered voters have to be adults which isn’t counting much of the youth. Another possibility is that the Croat population declined in Mostar from 2008 to 2013 but that doesn’t seem to add up to trending data. Every indication shows Mostar as being one of the areas in B&H with a rising Croat population and a gradually declining or stagnate Bosniak one. Another possibility is that not all the Croats of Mostar were counted.

If we look at the voters in Bosniak portions of Mostar compared to the 2013 census we can see some interesting details.

In 2008 there were 34,712 registered voters in the Bosniak portion of the city. The 2013 census declared 46,752 Bosniaks in Mostar. This would make sense as the youth are counted among the Bosniaks that cannot vote yet. Or, we can say there’s been a significant Bosniak increase in population/ and a simultaneous decrease of Croats but that doesn’t seem to fit the trending data.

Western Mostar and Western Herzegovina in general is one of the areas Croats are relatively prosperous in and its also one of the most economically developed areas of B&H. It doesn’t make sense that there would be a ‘sudden’ population drop of Croats there and a sudden and substantial increase of Bosniaks since it’s well known that Eastern Mostar and the Bosniak populated areas in the Herzegovina-Neretva cantons are some in which Bosniaks struggle (Unlike Sarajevo, Zenica, and Tuzla).

I think the political ramifications of an official Croat majority Mostar (which realistically it probably is 55–60%) would be dire for the international overlords,the Bosniaks, and the people pushing for city unification in Mostar.


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 19:45 
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There are only marginally more Croats in Mostar than Bosniaks, despite Croatian efforts to fit as many Croats from Central Bosnia/Western Herzegowina as possible into the small pocket that is "Western Mostar". Also, please take into consideration that the vast majority of the Croat student population from Croatia that studies in Mostar, leaves the city when they are done with their studies.

Despite the efforts to fit in as many Croats as possible from other parts of Bosnia and despite the political pressure to transform Mostar into a Croatian "seat town", not to mention the huge financial funds spent on this project, there are only marginally more Croats than Bosniaks.

In Mostar, there is no dispute about territory. It is clear to everyone what is Bosniak and what is Croatian. Bosniaks control around 70% of the total municipality area, the eastern part of town and a part of the western town (from the suburb of Donja Mahala to the carinski most on the crossing in the north of the city to the north eastern Sjeverni logor which is also under Bosniak control and the only place where the city can be spread, beside the areas in the southeast which are also Bosniak controlled). The border goes along the Bulevar street.

_________________
Skidanje okova je imperativ.

Takozvana "rs" je genocidna tvorevina.

The so-called "republic of srpska" is a genocidal ramshackle pseudo-state.

Ko je zrinyia na sigetu posjek'o..


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 19:48 
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It's dudu's and RobbieMo's subject. :zubati They are experts in demography, particulary in the BH demographics. And Mostar is the question of all questions in BH demographics.

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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 19:55 
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Amiđa je napisao/la:
There are only marginally more Croats in Mostar than Bosniaks, despite Croatian efforts to fit as many Croats from Central Bosnia/Western Herzegowina as possible into the small pocket that is "Western Mostar". Also, please take into consideration that the vast majority of the Croat student population from Croatia that studies in Mostar, leaves the city when they are done with their studies.

Despite the efforts to fit in as many Croats as possible from other parts of Bosnia and despite the political pressure to transform Mostar into a Croatian "seat town", not to mention the huge financial funds spent on this project, there are only marginally more Croats than Bosniaks.

In Mostar, there is no dispute about territory. It is clear to everyone what is Bosniak and what is Croatian. Bosniaks control around 70% of the total municipality area, the eastern part of town and a part of the western town (from the suburb of Donja Mahala to the carinski most on the crossing in the north of the city to the north eastern Sjeverni logor which is also under Bosniak control and the only place where the city can be spread, beside the areas in the southeast which are also Bosniak controlled). The border goes along the Bulevar street.


I've heard this same argument before. I didn't say this was a dispute about territory.Your reasoning is fine but it doesn't explain the numbers I've brought up. When I say youth I'm not talking only about college students that usually are old enough to register and vote. I'm talking about children or are they not counted in the census in Mostar for Croats?


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 20:00 
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Bosniak's political parties are strongly against unification of the city and thus against the proposal that the entire city should be one constituency.
We can infer that the estimations from Bosniaks political elites are much, much different from Amidja's post. They are obviously afraid of the Croatian majority.

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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 20:03 
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Amiđa je napisao/la:
There are only marginally more Croats in Mostar than Bosniaks, despite Croatian efforts to fit as many Croats from Central Bosnia/Western Herzegowina as possible into the small pocket that is "Western Mostar". Also, please take into consideration that the vast majority of the Croat student population from Croatia that studies in Mostar, leaves the city when they are done with their studies.

Despite the efforts to fit in as many Croats as possible from other parts of Bosnia and despite the political pressure to transform Mostar into a Croatian "seat town", not to mention the huge financial funds spent on this project, there are only marginally more Croats than Bosniaks.

In Mostar, there is no dispute about territory. It is clear to everyone what is Bosniak and what is Croatian. Bosniaks control around 70% of the total municipality area, the eastern part of town and a part of the western town (from the suburb of Donja Mahala to the carinski most on the crossing in the north of the city to the north eastern Sjeverni logor which is also under Bosniak control and the only place where the city can be spread, beside the areas in the southeast which are also Bosniak controlled). The border goes along the Bulevar street.


I've heard this same argument before. I didn't say this was a dispute about territory.Your reasoning is fine but it doesn't explain the numbers I've brought up. When I say youth I'm not talking only about college students that usually are old enough to register and vote. I'm talking about children or are they not counted in the census in Mostar for Croats?



I know nothing about Croatian children Mostar, but what I do know is that Robbie western mo and dudu often present the total number of newly borns in Mostar as Croats, when comparing Mostar numbers with the numbers of other cities. That leads to a biased and false picture.

_________________
Skidanje okova je imperativ.

Takozvana "rs" je genocidna tvorevina.

The so-called "republic of srpska" is a genocidal ramshackle pseudo-state.

Ko je zrinyia na sigetu posjek'o..


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 20:22 
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@Amiđa, still, don't you find some of these number discrepancies at least interesting and maybe important to consider?

Are you afraid of a Mostar with an official Croatian majority? What will that mean to you if or when its demonstrated to be a fact?


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 20:24 
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lider30 je napisao/la:
Bosniak's political parties are strongly against unification of the city and thus against the proposal that the entire city should be one constituency.
We can infer that the estimations from Bosniaks political elites are much, much different from Amidja's post. They are obviously afraid of the Croatian majority.


What do you think it is they are exactly afraid of from a Croatian majority? Does that lend more weight to the argument that Croats ought to be given an entity due to the fact they constitute a majority in a major BiH city?


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 20:28 
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@Amiđa, still, don't you find some of these number discrepancies at least interesting and maybe important to consider?

Are you afraid of a Mostar with an official Croatian majority? What will that mean to you if or when its demonstrated to be a fact?



No, I am not. As long as they do not cross the Bulevar border physically and threaten Bosniak controlled Mostar by colonizing it. But that is not a realistic scenario, as the Bulevar is not just a physical line or border, most importantly, it is a psychological one. I have no problems with Croats in Mostar whatsoever, as long they stay beyond the Bulevar line. Cheers.

P.S 544,780 is a heavily exaggerated number. There are no where near that many Croats in BiH. I would say between 420 000 and 435 000.

_________________
Skidanje okova je imperativ.

Takozvana "rs" je genocidna tvorevina.

The so-called "republic of srpska" is a genocidal ramshackle pseudo-state.

Ko je zrinyia na sigetu posjek'o..


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 20:42 
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Amiđa je napisao/la:
Becar Stari je napisao/la:
@Amiđa, still, don't you find some of these number discrepancies at least interesting and maybe important to consider?

Are you afraid of a Mostar with an official Croatian majority? What will that mean to you if or when its demonstrated to be a fact?



No, I am not. As long as they do not cross the Bulevar border physically and threaten Bosniak controlled Mostar by colonizing it. But that is not a realistic scenario, as the Bulevar is not just a physical line or border, most importantly, it is a psychological one. I have no problems with Croats in Mostar whatsoever, as long they stay beyond the Bulevar line. Cheers.

P.S 544,780 is a heavily exaggerated number. There are no where near that many Croats in BiH. I would say between 420 000 and 435 000.


So what you're saying is you support a divided city? Could you then please tell our media here to get the facts straight because all we hear about here is that in Mostar the Croats are the dividers and the Bosniaks are the pluralistic tolerant group there. Or do you only support unification when Bosniaks are in the majority? ;)

P.S. Your 420,000 number comes from what? The fact that you believe 544k is exaggerated suggests to me that you were under the impression that Croats did not matter as much and now you seem a little disturbed that they are more 'present' than you initially thought. What media are you consuming?


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 20:49 
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No, I am not. As long as they do not cross the Bulevar border physically and threaten Bosniak controlled Mostar by colonizing it. But that is not a realistic scenario, as the Bulevar is not just a physical line or border, most importantly, it is a psychological one. I have no problems with Croats in Mostar whatsoever, as long they stay beyond the Bulevar line. Cheers.

P.S 544,780 is a heavily exaggerated number. There are no where near that many Croats in BiH. I would say between 420 000 and 435 000.


So what you're saying is you support a divided city? Could you then please tell our media here to get the facts straight because all we hear about here is that in Mostar the Croats are the dividers and the Bosniaks are the pluralistic tolerant group there. Or do you only support unification when Bosniaks are in the majority? ;)

P.S. Your 420,000 number comes from what? The fact that you believe 544k is exaggerated suggests to me that you were under the impression that Croats did not matter as much and now you seem a little disturbed that they are more 'present' than you initially thought. What media are you consuming?


The Catholic church is the only relevant source when it comes to the number of Croats in BiH. They claim that there are some 400 000 Catholics in BiH, most of which are Croatian.

If Mostar is to be unified, the same thing should apply for the Federation. The Federation should be organized like the rs, which is fully centralized and often mentioned as the better functioning part of BiH.

_________________
Skidanje okova je imperativ.

Takozvana "rs" je genocidna tvorevina.

The so-called "republic of srpska" is a genocidal ramshackle pseudo-state.

Ko je zrinyia na sigetu posjek'o..


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:00 
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Yes but now we have an official census that puts Croat numbers much higher (and they could even be higher than reported based on some of the funny business I posted as the topic of this thread) than the Sarajevo based Catholic Church leadership claimed which was just an estimate. I could probably offer up a bunch of reasons why they would under report their estimate but that's not really relevant to the facts now.

I don't live in Mostar nor am I from Mostar originally so I won't comment on whether its should be unified or not. I'll let the Mostarci here answer that.


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:10 
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The number of Bosniaks in B&H at the census is significantly exaggerated. Perhaps the biggest exaggeration was in the figures of Bosniaks. Latest projections show that Bosnia and Herzegovina has 2,84 millions of permanent inhabitants, so that the census numbers from 2013 are mostly unusable.

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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:20 
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Amiđa has lived in Sweden for 20 years. He is a typical member of famous Bosniak diaspora. They are always loudest, the greatest patriots, they would verbally die for Bosnia, they all live in the western countries but everthing they did for Bosnia so far was writing on forums throughout the Balkan.

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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:21 
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lider30 je napisao/la:
Amiđa has lived in Sweden for 20 years. He is a typical member of famous Bosniak diaspora. They are always loudest, the greatest patriots, they would verbally die for Bosnia, but they all live in the western countries and write on forums throughout the Balkan.


LOL @ "famous Bosniak diaspora". Have you ever considered a thorough introspection of the Croat members on the forum? The loudest, greatest patriots and verbally endowed are the ones like bbc.

_________________
Skidanje okova je imperativ.

Takozvana "rs" je genocidna tvorevina.

The so-called "republic of srpska" is a genocidal ramshackle pseudo-state.

Ko je zrinyia na sigetu posjek'o..


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:23 
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lider30 je napisao/la:
Amiđa has lived in Sweden for 20 years. He is a typical member of famous Bosniak diaspora. They are always loudest, the greatest patriots, they would verbally die for Bosnia, but they all live in the western countries and write on forums throughout the Balkan.


Interesting, I met a Bosniak from Sweden but he was an Ustasa to the bone. When he came to America he loved hanging out with our community. LOL


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:32 
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Amiđa je napisao/la:
Becar Stari je napisao/la:

So what you're saying is you support a divided city? Could you then please tell our media here to get the facts straight because all we hear about here is that in Mostar the Croats are the dividers and the Bosniaks are the pluralistic tolerant group there. Or do you only support unification when Bosniaks are in the majority? ;)

P.S. Your 420,000 number comes from what? The fact that you believe 544k is exaggerated suggests to me that you were under the impression that Croats did not matter as much and now you seem a little disturbed that they are more 'present' than you initially thought. What media are you consuming?


The Catholic church is the only relevant source when it comes to the number of Croats in BiH. They claim that there are some 400 000 Catholics in BiH, most of which are Croatian.

If Mostar is to be unified, the same thing should apply for the Federation
. The Federation should be organized like the rs, which is fully centralized and often mentioned as the better functioning part of BiH.


It's a very evil thesis. We can never compare local government level with Federation level. Mostar should be compared only with other cities in Federation such as Tuzla, Travnik, Zenica...

It's impossible compare political system in City of New York and Federal level of government in the Unites States. It doesn't make sense and it's completely wrong political direction.

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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:35 
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lider30 je napisao/la:
Amiđa je napisao/la:

The Catholic church is the only relevant source when it comes to the number of Croats in BiH. They claim that there are some 400 000 Catholics in BiH, most of which are Croatian.

If Mostar is to be unified, the same thing should apply for the Federation
. The Federation should be organized like the rs, which is fully centralized and often mentioned as the better functioning part of BiH.


It's a very evil thesis. We can never compare local government level with Federation level. Mostar should be compared only with other cities in Federation such as Tuzla, Travnik, Zenica...

It's impossible compare political system in City of New York and Federal level of government in the Unites States. It doesn't make sense and it's completely wrong political direction.


NYC is heavily regulated on the Federal level but maybe that explains why its so messed up on a lot of issues.


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:37 
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Becar Stari je napisao/la:
lider30 je napisao/la:

It's a very evil thesis. We can never compare local government level with Federation level. Mostar should be compared only with other cities in Federation such as Tuzla, Travnik, Zenica...

It's impossible compare political system in City of New York and Federal level of government in the Unites States. It doesn't make sense and it's completely wrong political direction.


NYC is heavily regulated on the Federal level but maybe that explains why its so messed up on a lot of issues.


Ok. He cannot compare political system in Mobile for instance with federal level. :zubati

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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 26 sij 2017, 21:40 
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lider30 je napisao/la:
Becar Stari je napisao/la:

NYC is heavily regulated on the Federal level but maybe that explains why its so messed up on a lot of issues.


Ok. He cannot compare political system in Mobile for instance with federal level. :zubati


On an unrelated note I love Alabama. Awesome drinks and hot southern women :palacgore1


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 27 sij 2017, 15:39 
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There are about 5000 Bosniaks living in West Mostar, at least a quarter of their urban population.

In the settlement of Mostar (urban part, not including villages) Croats constitute less then 80% of the population, not 100%. Non-Croat 20% are 15% Bosniak (many olds), 3-4% Serbs, perhaps 2% others.
East Mostar is nearly 100% Bosniak.

Approximately 1/3 of the urban population lives in the East part of the City proper.


Mostar has huge Muslim diaspora, mostly in Scandinavia, much larger then Mostar-Croat diaspora. Many were counted in the census, I belive at least 5000 Muslims included in the official census are "the Scandinavians". There has been virtually no new construction of new homes or residential buildings in the eastern part of the city for the past 20 yrs. Very few new buildings were constructed there, and notably, muslim diaspora (with much higher purchasing power then the Muslim locals) buys about half of all the apartments.

In the Winter during the night time, if you observe such a new residental building in the East you can notice only a few windows lit, indicating almost nobody lives there during the Winter.

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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 27 sij 2017, 15:50 
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Amiđa je napisao/la:
lider30 je napisao/la:
Amiđa has lived in Sweden for 20 years. He is a typical member of famous Bosniak diaspora. They are always loudest, the greatest patriots, they would verbally die for Bosnia, but they all live in the western countries and write on forums throughout the Balkan.


LOL @ "famous Bosniak diaspora". Have you ever considered a thorough introspection of the Croat members on the forum? The loudest, greatest patriots and verbally endowed are the ones like bbc.


BBC, but even leader30 and dudu are members of diaspora. BBC lives in Austria and the latter two in Croatia. RobbieMO lives in Mostar, markan lives somewhere in Central Bosnia. MoS is in Australia.


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 27 sij 2017, 15:52 
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Amiđa has lived in Sweden for 20 years. He is a typical member of famous Bosniak diaspora. They are always loudest, the greatest patriots, they would verbally die for Bosnia, but they all live in the western countries and write on forums throughout the Balkan.


Interesting, I met a Bosniak from Sweden but he was an Ustasa to the bone. When he came to America he loved hanging out with our community. LOL


Perhaps you told him first you are a Croat... Perhaps if you told you are a German or a Bosniak, he would have a different story for you.


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 27 sij 2017, 15:55 
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There are about 5000 Bosniaks living in West Mostar, at least a quarter of their urban population.

In the settlement of Mostar (urban part, not including villages) Croats constitute less then 80% of the population, not 100%. Non-Croat 20% are 15% Bosniak (many olds), 3-4% Serbs, perhaps 2% others.
East Mostar is nearly 100% Bosniak.

Approximately 1/3 of the urban population lives in the East part of the City proper.


Mostar has huge Muslim diaspora, mostly in Scandinavia, much larger then Mostar-Croat diaspora. Many were counted in the census, I belive at least 5000 Muslims included in the official census are "the Scandinavians". There has been virtually no new construction of new homes or residential buildings in the eastern part of the city for the past 20 yrs. Very few new buildings were constructed there, and notably, muslim diaspora (with much higher purchasing power then the Muslim locals) buys about half of all the apartments.

In the Winter during the night time, if you observe such a new residental building in the East you can notice only a few windows lit, indicating almost nobody lives there in the Winter.


Do you have any information when we could see census results by settlements? In your judgement, how many residents do eastern and western parts have?


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 Naslov: Re: I was looking at the 2013 official census in Mostar and I noticed some funny numbers?
PostPostano: 27 sij 2017, 15:57 
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There is at least 5 times more construction of new residential buildings in the Western part, as opposed to the East.

Typically, more then 300 new units are built every year in the West, and 50 in the East. This tells enough about the migration, settlement, economy and purchasing power.

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