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 Naslov: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 14 tra 2013, 15:23 
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Pridružen/a: 19 srp 2011, 17:55
Postovi: 137
http://rgallivan.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03 ... ar_23.html


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 Naslov: Re: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 14 tra 2013, 19:42 
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Pridružen/a: 17 lip 2012, 00:09
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4th brigade wasn't from Serb-held suburb of Ilidza, but from Hrasnica, which was also part of pre-war Ilidza muncipality.
Hadzici were also held by Serbs during whole war, so this 9th brigade was not from Hadzici, but probably from Hadzici muncipality, Tarcin or Pazaric.

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 Naslov: Re: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 21 tra 2013, 12:31 
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Pridružen/a: 19 srp 2011, 17:55
Postovi: 137
Yes, the 9th Bridgade was from Pazaric, according to one of the UNMO reports I read, but I think it is clear that I am referring to municipalities, not towns, when I mention Hadzici and Ilidza.


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 Naslov: Re: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 21 tra 2013, 12:38 
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Pridružen/a: 17 lip 2012, 00:09
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It is still confusing and I see no need for changing Hrasnica for Ilidza or Pazaric for Hadzici.

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 Naslov: Re: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 21 tra 2013, 13:20 
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Pridružen/a: 19 srp 2011, 17:55
Postovi: 137
I learned about the two brigades' involvement in central Bosnia from Charles Shrader's "The Muslim-Croat Civil War in Central Bosnia". He describes the 9th Mountain Brigade as from Pazaric and the 4th Motorised Brigade as from Sarajevo, using an ECMM report as his source. I suppose you also think his account of events is confusing and he should have established that the 4th Mot Bde was from Hrasnica.

Anyway, given the vagueness of the 4th Mot Bde description, I thought I should treat the source a bit warily and just find out which municipalities the brigades were based in, as determining exactly where they were from would take a bit of time. Often it is quite difficult to establish exactly where brigades are based and details such as whether they began in one location then moved to another or were simultaneously in several locations (as I think was the case with the HVO 115th Bde in Tuzla-municipality). The important point I wanted to make was that the 9th Mte Bde and the 4th Mot Bde were from the region controlled by the 1st Corps.

If you have any more interesting information about the origins, exact locations etc of these two brigades why don't you share it with us instead of making petty criticisms?


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 Naslov: Re: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 21 tra 2013, 13:28 
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Pridružen/a: 17 lip 2012, 00:09
Postovi: 15513
Rory Gallivan je napisao/la:
I learned about the two brigades' involvement in central Bosnia from Charles Shrader's "The Muslim-Croat Civil War in Central Bosnia". He describes the 9th Mountain Brigade as from Pazaric and the 4th Motorised Brigade as from Sarajevo, using an ECMM report as his source. I suppose you also think his account of events is confusing and he should have established that the 4th Mot Bde was from Hrasnica.


Giving location of 4th brigade as Sarajevo is less precise, but is not uncorrect, as stating it is from Ilidza.

Citat:
Anyway, given the vagueness of the 4th Mot Bde description, I thought I should treat the source a bit warily and just find out which municipalities the brigades were based in, as determining exactly where they were from would take a bit of time. Often it is quite difficult to establish exactly where brigades are based and details such as whether they began in one location then moved to another or were simultaneously in several locations (as I think was the case with the HVO 115th Bde in Tuzla-municipality). The important point I wanted to make was that the 9th Mte Bde and the 4th Mot Bde were from the region controlled by the 1st Corps.

If you have any more interesting information about the origins, exact locations etc of these two brigades why don't you share it with us instead of making petty criticisms?


In Bosnian war most brigades were "local" brigades, meaning formed in certain place of people from that place. Ie, fact that Gacko brigade of VRS fought in Igman at some moment doesn't change fact it is brigade from Gacko.

Your making point failed, because you wanted to localize 4th and 9th brigade in region controlled by the Muslim 1st Corps, and you put them in region controlled by Sarajevo-Romanija Corps of VRS.

If that is petty criticism, I do not know what serious misinformation would be.

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 Naslov: Re: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 21 tra 2013, 14:07 
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Pridružen/a: 19 srp 2011, 17:55
Postovi: 137
Sorry, but you said earlier it was "confusing" and now you are saying it is "serious misinformation". I only refer to Ilidza once - as a municipality. Maybe if you didn't hide behind a silly pseudonym your contributions would be a bit more thoughtful.


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 Naslov: Re: Hadzici and the Croat-Muslim Civil War
PostPostano: 21 tra 2013, 16:48 
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Pridružen/a: 17 lip 2012, 00:09
Postovi: 15513
Rory Gallivan je napisao/la:
Sorry, but you said earlier it was "confusing" and now you are saying it is "serious misinformation". I only refer to Ilidza once - as a municipality. Maybe if you didn't hide behind a silly pseudonym your contributions would be a bit more thoughtful.


I fail to understand your wish for quarell, and discussion starts to bore me and my silly pseudonym.

So, bottom line: 4th and 9th Muslim brigade were not from Ilidza and Hadzici, both of these places being held by VRS, respectively Ilidžanska and Igmanska brigada.

Get your facts straight, correct your incorrect writing, or do whatever you want, like if I care.

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