Pa dobro ja sam htio reći zdravoseljački da to što ćemo svi steći imunitet ove zime na koronu kao što kaže divizija, nema više veze za sljedeću zimu ni za onu iza sljedeće. Inače ne bi ni radili sad cjepivo da je to tako. Sad kako se to virus mijenja svake godine DNA, RNA, to nemam pojma.

Previše se daje pozornosti toj mutaciji.

Pretpostavljam to bi obično trebala biti mala mutacija, virus praktično ostaje isti. Mislim da bi imunitet morao trajati dulje vrijeme, vjerojatno godinama.

AstraZeneca i Oxford priznali grešku: Rezultati efikasnosti vakcine dovedeni u pitanje

Kompanija AstraZeneca i Univerzitet Oxford priznali su jučer da su napravili grešku tokom testiranja vakcine protiv koronavirusa, što pokreće mnoga pitanja o preliminarnim rezultatima koje su objavili.

Kako piše Time, izjava koja opisuje grešku uslijedila je nekoliko dana nakon što su kompanija i univerzitet vakcinu opisali kao visokoefikasnu, ali nisu spomenuli zašto neki sudionici studije u prvoj od dvije injekcije nisu primili toliku dozu koliko se očekivalo.

Iznenađujuće je da je grupa dobrovoljaca koja je dobila manju dozu vakcine mnogo bolje zaštićena od onih koji su dobili dvije pune doze.

U grupi s malim dozama, navodi se iz AstraZenece, čini se da je vakcina efikasna u 90 posto slučajeva, dok je u grupi koja je dobila dvije pune doze zabilježena efikasnost od 62 posto. U kombinaciji te dvije grupe, kompanija je izjavila da je vakcina djelovala u 70 posto slučajeva. Međutim, način na koji su kompanije dolazile do rezultata je naveo mnoge stručnjake da preispitaju njihove metode.

Prije nego što započnu istraživanje, naučnici objašnjavaju sve korake koje poduzimaju i kako će analizirati rezultate. Svako odstupanje od tog protokola može dovesti rezultate u pitanje.

U izjavi od srijede, iz Oxforda je rečeno da neke bočice korištene u ispitivanju nisu imale odgovarajuću koncentraciju vakcine pa su neki dobrovoljci dobili pola doze. Navedeno je da će testiranje u kasnoj fazi završiti sa dvije grupe. Prema njihovim riječima, problem u vezi s proizvodnjom je ispravljen.

Stručnjaci kažu da relativno mali broj ljudi u grupi koja je dobila manju dozu otežava saznanje je li djelotvornost primijećena u grupi stvarna ili je to statistička neobičnost. Otprilike 2.741 osoba primila je polovinu doze vakcine, nakon čega je uslijedila puna doza. Ukupno 8.895 ljudi dobilo je dvije pune doze.

Činjenica koja također baca sumnju na istraživanje je ta da niko od ljudi u grupi s malim dozama nije imao više od 55 godina. Stručnjaci se slažu da mlađi ljudi imaju tendenciju jačeg imunološkog odgovora od starijih, što bi svakako mogao biti jedan od odlučujućih faktora u konačnim rezultatima.

Sumnjiva je i odluka da se objedine rezultati dviju grupa sudionika koji su primili različite nivoe doziranja kako bi postigli prosječnu efikasnost od 70 posto, rekao je saradnik globalnog zdravstvenog programa u Chatham Houseu David Salisbury

"Poduzeli ste dvije studije za koje su korištene različite doze i došli ste do rezultata koji ne predstavlja nijednu dozu. Mislim da mnogi ljudi imaju problema s tim″, rekao je Salisbury.

Sarah Gilbert, jedna od oksfordskih naučnica koja je vodila istraživanje, rekla je da odgovor na pitanje zašto se manja doza pokazala efikasnijom još uvijek ne znaju i da se razlog vjerovatno odnosi na pružanje tačne količine vakcine koja će pokrenuti najbolji imunološki odgovor.

"Bitno je dati pravu dozu, ne premalo i ne previše. Previše bi vam moglo dati i nekvalitetan odgovor. Dakle, želite baš pravu količinu i pomalo pogađate", kazala je Gilbert.

Detalji rezultata ispitivanja bit će objavljeni u medicinskim časopisima i dostavljeni britanskim regulatorima kako bi mogli odlučiti hoće li odobriti distribuciju vakcine. Ti izvještaji će sadržavati detaljnu raščlambu koja uključuje demografske i druge informacije o tome ko se razbolio u svakoj grupi i dati cjelovitiju sliku o tome koliko je vakcina efikasna.

Što se tiče cjepiva u RH (i šire), stvar je u lošem marketingu.

Sadašnja situacija: Poručili 3 milijuna ili koliko doza, dakle dovoljno za sve, i k tomu još besplatno. Dakle, sasvim dovoljno za uobičajene retarde da plaše narod sa očekivanim teorijama zavjera.

Bolji marketing: Poručite samo 100.000 doza i priopćite da je cjepivo dostupno samo političarima (i njihovim obiteljima) i ljudima u javnoj upravi. Ne bi ni izbrojao do 3, a javili bi se isti teoretičari zavjera, ovoga puta zakrvavljenih očiju, škrgtajući zubima s parolama poput "Vi ubijate moju djecu/roditelje, mamu li vam sebičnu, dajte nam svima tu vakcinu!"

Što se tiče cjepiva u RH (i šire), stvar je u lošem marketingu.

Sadašnja situacija: Poručili 3 milijuna ili koliko doza, dakle dovoljno za sve, i k tomu još besplatno. Dakle, sasvim dovoljno za uobičajene retarde da plaše narod sa očekivanim teorijama zavjera.

Bolji marketing: Poručite samo 100.000 doza i priopćite da je cjepivo dostupno samo političarima (i njihovim obiteljima) i ljudima u javnoj upravi. Ne bi ni izbrojao do 3, a javili bi se isti teoretičari zavjera, ovoga puta zakrvavljenih očiju, škrgutajući zubima s parolama poput "Vi ubijate moju djecu/roditelje, mamu li vam sebičnu, dajte nam svima tu vakcinu!"

Moji poznanici, mladi bracni par ovog tjedna se bore protiv posljedica zaraze, muskarac ima gore i teze simptome, strasne bolove misica i koze, te glavobolju, njegova supruga je izgubila osjet okusa i mirisa. Dva dana ranije prije pojave simptoma, meni bliske osobe su bile u kontaktu sa njima.

Ne znam puno o koronavirusu i mikrobiologiji, ali općenito govoreći nemojte previše vjerovati verziji 1.0. bilo čega.

Ima ona priča o krumpiru kad je tek došao u Rusiju.

Krumpir potječe iz Perua, Inke su ga pripitomile. Otkrićem Amerike ta biljka otporna na vremenske prilike (jer raste u zemlji) i puna jeftinih kalorija, dolazi u Europu. Velikim dijelom rješava problem gladi.

Priča ide da seljaci u Rusiji nisu to htjeli jesti jer raste u zemlji, a u zemlji je Vrag. Nisu ih mogli natjerati da to jedu.
Prema priči, car (ili neki ruski službenik) je naredio da se krumpir stavi na hrpu i da ga vojnici danonoćno čuvaju da ga nitko ne ukrade.

Ostatak priče se lako može pogoditi...

Anesteziolog iz Dubrave: U 10 godina mi nije umrlo ljudi kao u tri mjeseca

stu 25, 2020

Ljudi moraju biti svjesni da ne bi ni mogli preživjeti da nema respiratora - objasnio je liječnik.

Anesteziolog intenzivist dr. Andrej Šribar iz KB Dubrave opisao je uvjete rata u jedinici intenzivne njege koja je oformljena prije tjedan dana.

- Jedinica je oformljena prije tjedan dana. Ovo je prije bila jedinica za liječenje kardiokirurškh pacijenata, a zbog potrebe za prijemom povećanog broja pacijenata otvorila se i ova jedinica, popunjeno je do kraja, rekao je Šribar za N1, dodavši da je kapacitet jedinice 14 pacijenata, od kojih je trenutno 13 njih na respiratoru.

- Čujem puno pitanja, ljudi kažu da je smrtnost ljudi na respiratoru visoka, ali ti bi ljudi, da nisu intubirani i stavljeni na respirator, odmah umrli. Koliko god njih da umre, to im je najbolja šansa da prežive. Ljudi moraju biti svjesni da ne bi ni mogli preživjeti da nema respiratora - objasnio je liječnik.

Dr. Šribar kazao je da na odjelu intenzivne njege nisu više pacijenti sa značajnim komorbiditetima.

- U ovoj je jedinici najmlađi pacijent mlađi od 50 godina, bez značajnijih problema. On je disao na 40 do 50 udisaja u minuti, a prosječna osoba diše 12 udisaja u minuti i onda možete vidjeti kako su njegova pluća do te mjere oštećena da on jedino hiperventiliranjem i uz toliki napor pokušava doći do zraka - rekao je Šribar.

Kaže da respiratora ne nedostaje jer svaki krevet na intenzivnoj jedinici mora imati pripadajući respirator te da se zbog velikog priljeva pacijenata i otvaraju dodatne jedinice intenzivne njege kako bi svi kojima je to potrebno bili priključeni na respirator.

- Ja sam u ovoj struci 10 godina i u tih 10 godina nije mi umrlo toliko ljudi kao u ova 3 mjeseca. Nikad nismo imali toliku stopu smrtnosti i u startu je to bilo užasno frustrirajuće ali onda sam čitao literaturu i shvatio da je to takva bolest - rekao je Šribar i dodao: - Najveća prevara je da su to ljudi koji imaju značajne komorbiditete. Da, ima i takvih ljudi, ali nekome smo možda uzeli 3 godine života zbog neodgovornog ponašanja. Sad su sve mlađi i mlađi ljudi na intenzivnoj i posljedice će se tek vidjeti

Upitan o mjerama, kazao je kako ne želi ulaziti ni u kakvo politikanstvo.

Dnevnik.ba

British Army's Information Warfare Unit will be deployed to tackle anti-vaccine propaganda ahead of jab rollout
Leaked documents revealed soldiers are already monitoring cyberspace

PUBLISHED: 01:21 GMT, 29 November 2020 | UPDATED: 01:48 GMT, 29 November 2020

The British Army's Information Warfare Unit will be deployed to tackle anti-vaccine propaganda ahead of the coronavirus vaccine rollout, it has been revealed.

Soldiers are already monitoring cyberspace for Covid-19 content to find out how British citizens are being targeted online, leaked documents showed.

It comes amid a rise in the number of anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine protests taking place around Britain as three potential vaccines were found to have around 90 per cent effectiveness.

Basista benda Riblja čorba Miroslav Miša Aleksić preminuo je u 68. godini života usljed teške borbe s koronavirusom.

Ne pre star.

Iz perspektive nas koji živimo u 21. stoljeću.

No treba znati da do 68. godine 25% muškaraca skonča život u najrazvijenijim zemljama. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Inače, ova korona mi je dala još nešto za misliti. Kako stanovništvo stari, za cca 10 godina, nama bi svaka gripa mogla ovako izgledati, po smrtnosti. A kak ogripa mutira, cijepivo je samo 40% učinkovito.

The 40-year-old man alleges ‘adverse reaction’; hospital panel says it’s not due to ‘Covishield’.

A 40-year-old volunteer for ‘Covishield’, the candidate vaccine being tested by the Pune-based Serum Institute of India (SII), has sued the company for ₹5 crore, alleging that the vaccine triggered an adverse reaction, which includes neurological impairment and an inability to get back to the life before being inoculated.

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/healt ... 201686.ece

Ne pre star.

Što se tiče cjepiva, ako su države već naručile i platile cjepiva, onda se farmaceutska industrija namirila i njih više nije briga hoće li se I koliko ljudi cijepiti. Sad će samo biti natezanja između država i stanovništva, ali pošto je u Hrvatskoj visoka ovisnost o državnim financijama, nije teško zaključiti čije će na kraju biti zadnja.

Ma procijepit će oni dio stanovništva, samo ja mislim da je dosta bitno da se dio u fertilnoj dobi ne cijepi. Ionako nije rizičan, a gledajmo nuspojave na starijima.

Naši će vidim ići u tom smjeru, stariji će imati prednost. To + činjenica da će nas masa preboliti covid dati će nam kolektivni imunitet do proljeća.

Očekujem da covid do svinja nestane.

Oćeš li se cjepiti, i sa kojim brendom?

Scientists See Signs of Lasting Immunity to Covid-19, Even After Mild Infections

New research indicates that human immune system cells are storing information about the coronavirus so they can fight it off again.

To the immune system, not all germs are equally memorable. But our body’s cells seem to be seriously studying up on the coronavirus.

Scientists who have been monitoring immune responses to the virus are now starting to see encouraging signs of strong, lasting immunity, even in people who developed only mild symptoms of Covid-19, a flurry of new studies suggests. Disease-fighting antibodies, as well as immune cells called B cells and T cells that are capable of recognizing the virus, appear to persist months after infections have resolved — an encouraging echo of the body’s enduring response to other viruses.

“Things are really working as they’re supposed to,” said Deepta Bhattacharya, an immunologist at the University of Arizona and an author on one of the new studies, which has not yet been peer-reviewed.

Although researchers cannot forecast how long these immune responses will last, many experts consider the data a welcome indication that the body’s most studious cells are doing their job — and will have a good chance of fending off the coronavirus, faster and more fervently than before, if exposed to it again.

“This is exactly what you would hope for,” said Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington and an author on another of the new studies, which is currently under review at the journal Nature. “All the pieces are there to have a totally protective immune response.”

Protection against reinfection cannot be fully confirmed until there is proof that most people who encounter the virus a second time are actually able to keep it at bay, Dr. Pepper said. But the findings could help quell recent concerns over the virus’s ability to dupe the immune system into amnesia, leaving people vulnerable to repeat bouts of disease.

Researchers have yet to find unambiguous evidence that coronavirus reinfections are occurring, especially within the few months that the virus has been rippling through the human population. The prospect of immune memory “helps to explain that,” Dr. Pepper said.

In discussions about immune responses to the coronavirus, much of the conversation has focused on antibodies — Y-shaped proteins that can latch onto the surfaces of pathogens and block them from infecting cells. But antibodies represent just one wing of a complex and coordinated squadron of immune soldiers, each with their own unique modes of attack. Viruses that have already invaded cells, for instance, are cloaked from antibodies, but are still vulnerable to killer T cells, which force infected cells to self-destruct. Another set of T cells, nicknamed “helpers,” can coax B cells to mature into antibody-making machines.

(Yet another sector of the immune system assails pathogens within minutes of their arrival, while sending out signals called cytokines to mobilize forces from elsewhere in the body. Some evidence suggests that severe cases of Covid-19 may stem from this early process going awry.)

Antibodies also come with an expiration date: Because they are inanimate proteins and not living cells, they can’t replenish themselves, and so disappear from the blood just weeks or months after they are produced. Hordes of antibodies appear shortly after a virus has breached the body’s barriers, then wane as the threat dissipates. Most of the B cells that produce these early antibodies die off as well.

But even when not under siege, the body retains a battalion of longer-lived B cells that can churn out virus-fighting antibodies en masse, should they prove useful again. Some patrol the bloodstream, waiting to be triggered anew; others retreat into the bone marrow, generating small amounts of antibodies that are detectable years, sometimes decades, after an infection is over. Several studies, including those led by Dr. Bhattacharya and Dr. Pepper, have found antibodies capable of incapacitating the coronavirus lingering at low levels in the blood months after people have recovered from Covid-19.

“The antibodies decline, but they settle in what looks like a stable nadir,” which is observable about three months after symptoms start, Dr. Bhattacharya said. “The response looks perfectly durable.”

Seeing antibodies this long after infection is a strong indication that B cells are still chugging away in the bone marrow, Dr. Pepper said. She and her team were also able to pluck B cells that recognize the coronavirus from the blood of people who have recovered from mild cases of Covid-19 and grow them in the lab.

Multiple studies, including one published on Friday in the journal Cell, have also managed to isolate coronavirus-attacking T cells from the blood of recovered individuals — long after symptoms have disappeared. When provoked with bits of the coronavirus in the lab, these T cells pumped out virus-fighting signals, and cloned themselves into fresh armies ready to confront a familiar foe. Some reports have noted that analyses of T cells could give researchers a glimpse into the immune response to the coronavirus, even in patients whose antibody levels have declined to a point where they are difficult to detect.

“This is very promising,” said Smita Iyer, an immunologist at the University of California, Davis, who is studying immune responses to the coronavirus in rhesus macaques but was not involved in the new studies. “This calls for some optimism about herd immunity, and potentially a vaccine.”

Notably, several of the new studies are finding these powerful responses in people who did not develop severe cases of Covid-19, Dr. Iyer added. Some researchers have worried that infections that take a smaller toll on the body are less memorable to the immune system’s studious cells, which may prefer to invest their resources in more serious assaults. In some cases, the body could even jettison the viruses so quickly that it fails to catalog them. “This paper suggests this is not true,” Dr. Iyer said. “You can still get durable immunity without suffering the consequences of infection.”

What has been observed in people who fought off mild cases of Covid-19 might not hold true for hospitalized patients, whose bodies struggle to marshal a balanced immune response to the virus, or those who were infected but had no symptoms at all. Research groups around the world are continuing to study the entire range of responses. But “the vast majority of the cases are these mild infections,” said Jason Netland, an immunologist at the University of Washington and an author on the paper under review at Nature. “If those people are going to be protected, that’s still good.”

This new spate of studies could also further assuage fears about how and when the pandemic will end. On Friday, updated guidance released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was misinterpreted by several news reports that suggested immunity against the coronavirus might last only a few months. Experts quickly responded, noting the dangers of propagating such statements and pointing to the wealth of evidence that people who previously had the virus are probably at least partly protected from reinfection for at least three months, if not much longer.

Considered with other recent reports, the new data reinforce the idea that, “Yes, you do develop immunity to this virus, and good immunity to this virus,” said Dr. Eun-Hyung Lee, an immunologist at Emory University who was not involved in the studies. “That’s the message we want to get out there.”

Some illnesses, like the flu, can plague populations repeatedly. But that is at least partly attributable to the high mutation rates of influenza viruses, which can quickly make the pathogens unrecognizable to the immune system. Coronaviruses, in contrast, tend to change their appearance less readily from year to year.

Still, much remains unknown. Although these studies hint at the potential for protectiveness, they do not demonstrate protection in action, said Cheong-Hee Chang, an immunologist at the University of Michigan who was not involved in the new studies. “It’s hard to predict what’s going to happen,” Dr. Chang said. “Humans are so heterogeneous. There are so many factors coming into play.”

Research in animals could help fill a few gaps. Small studies have shown that one bout of the coronavirus seems to protect rhesus macaques from contracting it again.

But tracking long-term human responses will take time, Dr. Pepper said. Good immune memory, she added, requires molecules and cells to be abundant, effective and durable — and scientists cannot yet say that all three conditions have been definitively met.

As people’s bodies settle into their post-coronavirus state, “we’re just now hitting the point of relevance” to take the long view on immunity, Dr. Bhattacharya said. Things may change a few months or years down the line. Or they may not.

“There’s no shortcuts here,” Dr. Bhattacharya said. “We just have to follow it out.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/heal ... odies.html

New Evidence Suggests COVID-19 Immunity Can Last 6 to 8 Months After Infection

author logo
AYLIN WOODWARD, BUSINESS INSIDER
29 NOVEMBER 2020
We now have the best answer yet to a crucial, lingering question about COVID-19: how long immunity lasts.

New research suggests that recovered coronavirus patients likely have a robust immune memory that persists for at least eight months.