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Brane · **Pridružen/a:** 30 tra 2018, 13:41 **Postovi:** 5787

Sokolić je napisao/la:

Francuski zrakoplovi - Francuska je slabo pridonila hrvatskoj stvari, radili su protiv Hrvatske u Domovinskon ratu i u diplomaciji i kao unproforci su pomagali pobunjene Srbe i džamahirijsku vojsku u BiH. Stoga san protiv.

Francuska je neosporno bila najveći vojni saveznik Hrvatske '90-i.
Postoji i vrhunski dokumentarac potkrijepljen hrpom činjenica i dokumenata, što neosporno dokazuje da je sve ovo istina...
https://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/ja-sam- ... be-1131787

Da je samo jedan, puno je...

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Krilnik · **Pridružen/a:** 21 pro 2020, 03:45 **Postovi:** 210

Ako je plan imati eskadrilu aviona četvrte generacije narednih 10, do maksimalno 15 godina, te onda postepeno prijeći na petu generaciju (F35), onda nam ovi Rafale itekako imaju smisla jer im je cijena upola manja od novih F-16, kvalitetom su tu negdje, možda čak i bolji, a resursa imaju taman za navući do nekih 20 godina eksploatacije.

No ako je želja krpati se sa ovim kupljenim avionima "praktično dok se ne raspadnu", znači 30+ godina ostati na nivou četvrte generacije bez trošenja novih financijskih sredstava po tom pitanju, onda bi nove F-16 imale više smisla.

Moje mišljenje, u vojsku se treba ulagati, i države koje praktično 2 stoljeća nisu imale oružanih sukoba (poput Švicarske) imaju strašne vojne snage, a kamoli na ovom našem nestabilnom Balkanu.
Te s obzirom da četvrta generacija aviona već lagano postaje "staro željezo", zaista nebi imalo smisla potrošiti duplo veći novac na nove F-16 avione, te se zadržati na tom nivou narednih 30 godina, kada se već danas većina država ubrzano opskrbljuje avionima pete generacije, koji će za 20 godina postati norma.

Dakle - Rafale za narednih 15-ak godina, te onda nabava eskadrile F-35-ica.

Uz jednu iznimno bitnu napomenu, dronovi su oružje budućnosti, te bi iz te perspektive MORH trebao krenuti u suradnju sa recimo Amerima ili Izraelcima po tom pitanju (ne Turcima, jer se geostrateški nalazimo na suprotnim stranama), da se nabavi nekoliko takvih strojeva za zračni nadzor, i naravno stjecanje know-how-a po pitanju UAV-a, obrazovanje stručnog kadra koji bi znao koristiti takvu tehnologiju.

Niko Komadina

Brane je napisao/la:

Sokolić je napisao/la:

Francuski zrakoplovi - Francuska je slabo pridonila hrvatskoj stvari, radili su protiv Hrvatske u Domovinskon ratu i u diplomaciji i kao unproforci su pomagali pobunjene Srbe i džamahirijsku vojsku u BiH. Stoga san protiv.

Francuska je neosporno bila najveći vojni saveznik Hrvatske '90-i.
Postoji i vrhunski dokumentarac potkrijepljen hrpom činjenica i dokumenata, što neosporno dokazuje da je sve ovo istina...
https://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/ja-sam- ... be-1131787

Da je samo jedan, puno je...

slika

Vise je hrvata poginulo za francusku, nego francuza za hrvatsku.

K:M

dudu je napisao/la:

K:M je napisao/la:

To zazivaš povjesne suveznika nekoć i danas u nato.

OSRH su najjače tu. Bugari se raspadaju i Šipke nemaju ništa.
Vi ste stožera snaga i pesnica slavenskih zemalja.

Kad stignu zrakoplovi pzo sustavi, topništvo, vbr, bićete lokalni hegemon od Beča do Stambola.

Onda ne znaš da su Bugari već naručili 8 komada F-16 Block 70 (kojeg i mi još uvijek možemo izabrati), da su im iz Rusije stigli modernizirani SU-25 i da još uvijek imaju operativnu punu eskadrilu MIGova 29 (18 aviona). Još će dodatno naručiti 8 novih F-16, čim započne isporuka prvih primjeraka već naručenih.

Za vojni departman zadužen je major Carmello. Ja sam više za moral, i društveno politički rad i djelanje u neprijateljskoj pozadini.... Grobi je za šalu, šegu, komiku i skurnju.

Znači Bug su za vas GIGANTI. Duplo veća teritorija, puk.
Na prvoj crti "bojišnice" ka Rusiji i Turskoj, kapija Šengena.

dudu

Utjecaj Francuske se vidi na ovim slikama, zna li netko što točno i na koji su način Francuz utjecali?

slika

K:M

Utjecaj je preko Legije stranaca, gde su neki kaplari i narednici, preko noći u ratnom vihoru, Balkana preinačeni u

pukovnike, đenerala, vojvode, maršale. Smehotresno.

Trebaće Hrv po misijama po Africi, da daju dušu, krv, tjelo za rudnike dijamanata, platine, urana.... dok profit ide u Pariz, a

Vama raste vanjski dug za "moderniziranje" uz dodatni val iseljavanja zbog zapostavljanja opg u Slavoniji i start up.

weasel · **Pridružen/a:** 10 svi 2019, 22:58 **Postovi:** 21897

dudu je napisao/la:

Utjecaj Francuske se vidi na ovim slikama, zna li netko što točno i na koji su način Francuz utjecali?

slika

Beretke jasno i vjerojatno nošenje zastave kao tradicije, možda i način držanja oružja...

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 15:45 **Postovi:** 33114

weasel je napisao/la:

Beretke jasno i vjerojatno nošenje zastave kao tradicije, možda i način držanja oružja...

Beretke su španjolske koliko i francuske :neznam

dudu

KIM je pogodio, s razlogom pripadnici Zapovjedništva specijalnih snaga nose zelenu beretku na kontra stranu (zdesna).

Prvi zapovjednik preteče ZSS-a Miljenko Filipović

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Na ovoj drugoj slici se poznaje i legionarski pozdrav s dlanom okrenutim od lica.

Te 1991. godine tadašnje specijalne snage su kompletno opremljene od Legije stranaca, u odjeći, obući i osobnom naoružanju, plus hrpa instruktora legionara.

Do danas je u ZSS-u ostao taj legionarski dril, stav i izgled.

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 15:45 **Postovi:** 33114

K:M je napisao/la:

Utjecaj je preko Legije stranaca, gde su neki kaplari i narednici, preko noći u ratnom vihoru, Balkana preinačeni u pukovnike, đenerala, vojvode, maršale. Smehotresno.

Operacije (HV) su planirane od strane školovanih visokih časnika.

Niko Komadina

Radnije bih da umjesto beretki nose stilizirane dalmatinske / licke kape, a postrojbe sjeverno od save sesire, kao dio tradicije.

Niko Komadina

Mar-kan je napisao/la:

K:M je napisao/la:

Utjecaj je preko Legije stranaca, gde su neki kaplari i narednici, preko noći u ratnom vihoru, Balkana preinačeni u pukovnike, đenerala, vojvode, maršale. Smehotresno.

Operacije (HV) su planirane od strane školovanih visokih časnika.

Od kojih su neki generali postali nakon ratnog iskustva u ww2

weasel · **Pridružen/a:** 10 svi 2019, 22:58 **Postovi:** 21897

Kad već govorimo o kapama ne treba izmišljati toplu vodu već se samo držati tradicije Hrvatskog domobranstva. Domobranske kape iz ww1 ili ww2, Mađari su recimo svoju tradiciju sačuvali i dan danas ih nose dok smo mi naravno sve tradicionalno odbacili.
Čak nismo ni trolist kao simbol sačuvali.

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Stara slika domobrana s kapama

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Brane · **Pridružen/a:** 30 tra 2018, 13:41 **Postovi:** 5787

Evo šta je francuski predsjednik F.Mediteran reko za Hrvatsku...

dudu

Nakon Domovinskog rata nema smisla se vraćati na neku tradiciju koja je passe, naša tradicija izlazi iz najslavnijih dana.

Mijenjati ove naše predivne beretke za neke smiješne kape je deplasirano, vojska bi nam izgledala smiješno, a ovako vojnik izgleda zastrašujuć.

Od vremena domobranske vojske iz AU bih pobrao sve koračnice.

weasel · **Pridružen/a:** 10 svi 2019, 22:58 **Postovi:** 21897

Beretke nisu Hrvatske kape i to ne može biti naše nikad, to ako baš hoće neka nose ovi iz specijalnih snaga, zna se što je hrvatsko i što je hrvatska tradicija. A passe može biti samo onima koji ne znaju povijest. Dulje je Hrvatska vojska nosila tu kapu i trolist nego moderni Hv. To iz 90-ih je bila kupus svega i svačega polu naše polu JNA oznake i uniforme, nećemo valjda uzimati iz tradicije luzera i okupatora.

Kopiranje i krađa tuđeg je samo simbol kompleksa a to nama nije potrebno.

Mar-kan · **Pridružen/a:** 03 svi 2009, 15:45 **Postovi:** 33114

DrMag je napisao/la:

Mar-kan je napisao/la:

Operacije (HV) su planirane od strane školovanih visokih časnika.

Od kojih su neki generali postali nakon ratnog iskustva u ww2

Da, npr. Bobetko

Fullback · **Pridružen/a:** 22 pro 2020, 02:54 **Postovi:** 443

Malo povijesti, one man band iz Hrvatske o Borojeviću

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'Ja ne mogu biti podanik srpskom kralju - riječ podanik sramoti njihov srpski jezik - jer Karađorđevići nisu stariji od Boroevića'

dudu

Citat:

Les dates de livraison des avions ainsi que le montant du contrat seront évidemment des critères importants. D’après les chiffres évoqués par la presse croate, il est supposé que l’offre française présente le meilleur rapport qualité/prix puisqu’il est question de 7 milliards de kunas [930 millions d’euros] pour 12 Rafale F3R. Et, en se basant sur les F-16V commandés par la Bulgarie, la proposition américaine est évaluée à plus de 11 milliards de kunas [1,46 milliards d’euros].

http://www.opex360.com/2020/12/25/le-ra ... ne-croate/

Francuzi sebe zovu favoritima, daju i cijenu 7 milijardi kuna, odnosno oko 935 milijuna eura.

Heero · **Pridružen/a:** 23 ožu 2015, 22:56 **Postovi:** 5046

dudu je napisao/la:

Utjecaj Francuske se vidi na ovim slikama, zna li netko što točno i na koji su način Francuz utjecali?

slika

Bulpub puške?
Kape?

Zar nismo mi dudu kopirali amerikance?

Brane · **Pridružen/a:** 30 tra 2018, 13:41 **Postovi:** 5787

dudu je napisao/la:

Citat:

Les dates de livraison des avions ainsi que le montant du contrat seront évidemment des critères importants. D’après les chiffres évoqués par la presse croate, il est supposé que l’offre française présente le meilleur rapport qualité/prix puisqu’il est question de 7 milliards de kunas [930 millions d’euros] pour 12 Rafale F3R. Et, en se basant sur les F-16V commandés par la Bulgarie, la proposition américaine est évaluée à plus de 11 milliards de kunas [1,46 milliards d’euros].

http://www.opex360.com/2020/12/25/le-ra ... ne-croate/

Francuzi sebe zovu favoritima, daju i cijenu 7 milijardi kuna, odnosno oko 935 milijuna eura.

Prevod na engleski...

On December 21, Croatian Prime Minister Andrej Plenković issued a statement indicating that he had just received from the "Inter-Agency Commission for the Acquisition of a Multirole Fighter Aircraft" an in-depth analysis of the four offers. received as part of a call for tenders aimed at modernizing the country's air force.

“On the basis of a comprehensive and multi-criteria expert analysis […], the Commission also unanimously adopted a conclusion on the best offer. The Commission has examined two offers for the new aircraft [F-16 Block 70 and Gripen C / D] and two offers for used aircraft [Israeli Rafale F3-R and F-16 Block 30]. All the offers were evaluated in a thorough and precise manner in three areas: the strategic area, the capacity area and the financial area ”, it is explained in this press release.

This analysis must now be submitted to the defense committee of the Croatian Parliament. Then, a decision will be announced by Zagreb and, in the process, negotiations for a government-to-government agreement will be launched in order to finalize the purchase of 12 fighter jets by the end of 2021. .

For the moment, the content of this study is classified. But according to several Croatian newspapers, two planes are given favorites: the F-16 Block 70 “Viper” and the Rafale F3R.

"Unofficial information indicates that it is very likely that the commission recommended the choice between the American F-16 and the French Rafale", assures the daily Jutarnji List.

The aircraft delivery dates as well as the amount of the contract will obviously be important criteria. According to figures reported by the Croatian press, it is assumed that the French offer offers the best value for money since it is question of 7 billion kuna [930 million euros] for 12 Rafale F3Rs. And, based on the F-16Vs ordered by Bulgaria, the US proposal is valued at more than 11 billion kuna [1.46 billion euros].

The strategic area will also be decisive, as the Croatian Prime Minister indicated in his press release. There, Zagreb has two options: get closer to the United States with the choice of the F-16V or else play the card of European cooperation in defense. In either case, NATO would be strengthened. But the second hypothesis would also strengthen the European pillar of the Alliance. This is what Florence Parly, the French Minister of the Armed Forces, recalled during her last visit to Croatia, last November.

We are working together to strengthen European strategic autonomy with the Permanent Structured Cooperation [PSC] and the European Defense Fund [EDF], which have made significant progress thanks to the Croatian presidency of the European Union. Tomorrow, this strategic relationship could take another decisive step: France has submitted [...] a Rafale offer for the renewal of the Croatian fleet of combat aircraft. A project that would be structuring for cooperation between our two countries, and for a stronger defense Europe ”, argued Ms. Parly.

Anyway, requested by the Dnevno news site, Croatian military analyst Jan Ivanjek seems to favor the French offer, especially since the latter is based on the delivery of 12 Rafale F3Rs, it is ie the latest standard of the aircraft offered by Dassault Aviation.

"We talk a lot about the Rafale, because with the F-16 Block 70 it is the most advanced aircraft there is" and "it is offered to Croatia in its most powerful version," said Ivanjek. They are "two excellent planes, but the Rafale has greater capabilities in terms of tactical and technical characteristics," he continued.

“I will not speculate on what the commission recommended, nor what decision the government will take. But being what is on offer, it is to be expected that Croatia will face a dilemma between the Rafale F3R and the F-16 Viper ", concluded the Croatian military analyst.

However, on the French side, the equation risks becoming more complicated for the Air & Space Army, which will have to do without 12 of its Rafale F3Rs when the contract with Greece is signed [which should be the case in January 2021… once the Greek Court of Auditors has given the green light].

"All we want is obviously delivery dates for these planes which allow this effort to be made sustainable by the Air & Space Army", explained General François Lecointre, the chief of staff of the armies [CEMA], last October. "So, either these two prospects are chained in time, and at that moment, the effort will be sustainable, or we will be unable to do so, at the risk of significant shortcomings on the operational level and on the organic level", had -he adds.

Jan je posto popularan da ga i francuzi citiraju...

Brane · **Pridružen/a:** 30 tra 2018, 13:41 **Postovi:** 5787

Evo malo komentara francuski...

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Year 2020 or year of all renouncements according to meta and reported here: whether he hesitates or he keeps silent, the neighbor Germans is either a ball or a predator, but not an ally.
And it is because it makes deep choices in the direction of alliances towards small European countries, very dependent on NATO, and because Germany voluntarily grinds its teeth that it manages to play white. lambs… Who wins on the maximum number of tables.
The work to which our policies must be tackled must be to associate France with the small European countries to dissociate them from the protector of the U.S, whose largesse comes at a cost.
If we cannot leave Europe, we can influence the most toxic decisions by obtaining a better representation through our small allies, whose demands could not be worse than those of our neighbors who oust us and corner us between the Rhine and Atlantic.
Croatia is therefore an even more important market than Switzerland if we follow this doctrine.

Citat:

Besides, I don't know how France can become the political leader of Europe. What would we rely on? Our economy? Our social model that the world envies us?

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You read NRJ badly, and once again misunderstand and answer sideways! ...
E-Faystos does not want France to replace the USA, but on the contrary that France and others finally dissociate themselves from NATO and the predominance of the US to create a fully independent Europe in terms of Defense ...
E-Faystos speaks of "influencing the most toxic decisions by obtaining better representation through our small allies" not of becoming "the political leader of Europe" ...
He just wants a more powerful place for France, accompanied by certain countries, likely to counterbalance Germany, which it relies on the countries of the East and the Netherlands to impose its ideas on Europe ...

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In fact, everyone abroad actually envies our social model ... Even though many know that it is not sustainable, its advantages are clear.

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The first to subsidize the replacement of military equipment in the former Soviet colonies are Germany and France. France has earned 9 billion euros per year for two or three decades.
Considering the level of bleeding (0.5% of GDP / year), once in a while it would be good if we were entitled to a return on investment otherwise it will end up becoming really boring.
Do Americans subsidize Eastern European countries to the tune of 0.5% of their GDP ($ 100 billion / year)? If not, they are making less effort than us!

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To become an economic leader would require a long-term strategy, something we have not had for a long time despite the impressive talent that is in the private sector ...

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On the other hand, if a small war is coming in the years to come, the only ones in Europe with an army that holds up is France by far. The cards could then be quickly reshuffled especially since failing to be a leader we still have the second largest economy in Europe.

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Very fair comment….
Germany is most often a ball AND a predator ... The Germans are stealing our technology "Airbus" "eurocopter" ect .... In exchange for nothing.
SCAF is a huge mistake.
See Nexter… Arsenals ect…
And on electric cars they are very late. Ect .. Ect….

DRUGI KOMENTAR...

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The Air Force had around 110 Rafales. If this figure drops to 86 Rafales, it will cause a big loss of capacity, for barely a billion euros. The Croatian option is only of interest if one fails to sell new Rafales. However, if we no longer hear Indonesia (we were probably playing hares in this case), there are still contracts in Finland and Switzerland. And then potentially India, although that option seems to be receding as we go along.

Citat:

The decline in resources can be curbed in many ways depending on whether devices are being handed over after retrofitting or are preparing to enter them.
And I don’t think our beautiful, rich 2020 has seen the Air and Space Army fill up with candidates. So a lack of materials may eventually lower the number of entries into the course.
For my part, I find that the biggest problem is that the proceeds from the sale will go through Bercy, who will donate the equivalent to Ballard if he wishes.

Citat:

You have to know what you want, NRJ. You are the first to accuse Dassault of being fed on the excessive generosity towards him of national defense. AA's staffing plan is based on what the EMA programs. And what the power prioritizes in terms of diplomacy. In all of this, there is a way to average

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Indo won't be done in 3 weeks, a little patience anyway.
The interest of selling to Croatia is to set foot in the market and especially Europe Europe Europe of La Défense.
With the increase in availability of Ravel, we will go from 55 to 75% of availability, so we will consume more hours on the remaining cells until 2025. At this date the number of bursts will be back in the green.
The Emiratis have apparently returned as well. The Indians will produce at home even if part of it may be enough to pose a lot of problem for the continuity of our chains. It's moving away ... is that why the IN is asking to join the iAf mmrca? If it's accepted (and there's a good chance it will pass) it's 114 + 36 or 150 planes. Needless to say, the Burst is favorite.
Anyway we are more on a pace of 17 bursts until 2025. With Croatia we will be at 22.

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Precision:
- Indonesia (announcement from Parly ... At Dassault, discretion is required ...) if it is done, it will only be the first half of 2021. There, Dassault sales representatives are very busy with Greece, India, Croatia and… the Emirates !!! (and a team was also in Bern last week…)
- With RAVEL in place for 20 months, the availability of the Rafale has increased to 76%! And Dassault announces that it can do even better!…
https://www.air-cosmos.com/article/mco- ... ieux-23753
- Indeed, concerning the Emirates, discussions have resumed… And F-35 or not, the Rafale could land there anyway…
- MMRCA2 is 114 devices. But for the Indian navy it's 57 aircraft!
But at the same time, at Dassault we are preparing for a second tranche of 36 Rafale, the announcement of which would be imminent (first quarter 2021) "over the counter", India facing increasingly insistent Chinese and Pakistani pressure. … And anyway, the infrastructures in India are ready to immediately welcome these 2 new “squadrons”…
Potentially, we are therefore at 207 Rafale possible for India, including 36 built in France ...
Business to follow !!!…

Citat:

Oulalala! I forgot, in my first point:
- Egypt !!! Discussions for 12 aircraft have picked up again in recent weeks, now that the SCALP (Black Shaheen) missile is ITAR Free !!!

Primarijus · **Pridružen/a:** 09 tra 2017, 22:00 **Postovi:** 3436

Brane je napisao/la:

"All we want is obviously delivery dates for these planes which allow this effort to be made sustainable by the Air & Space Army", explained General François Lecointre, the chief of staff of the armies [CEMA], last October. "So, either these two prospects are chained in time, and at that moment, the effort will be sustainable, or we will be unable to do so, at the risk of significant shortcomings on the operational level and on the organic level", had -he adds.

Jan je posto popularan da ga i francuzi citiraju...

Čovjek je napravio kanal prije godinu dana i još nije skupio pišljivih 20 tisuća pretplatnika, a video uradci su mu prva liga.

dudu

Zbog stranaca je stavio engleske titlove, doslovno ga zatrpavali sa zahtjevom.

Sokolić · **Pridružen/a:** 14 sij 2013, 23:25 **Postovi:** 5633

Krilnik je napisao/la:

Ako je plan imati eskadrilu aviona četvrte generacije narednih 10, do maksimalno 15 godina, te onda postepeno prijeći na petu generaciju (F35), onda nam ovi Rafale itekako imaju smisla jer im je cijena upola manja od novih F-16, kvalitetom su tu negdje, možda čak i bolji, a resursa 4imaju taman za navući do nekih 20 godina eksploatacije.

No ako je želja krpati se sa ovim kupljenim avionima "praktično dok se ne raspadnu", znači 30+ godina ostati na nivou četvrte generacije bez trošenja novih financijskih sredstava po tom pitanju, onda bi nove F-16 imale više smisla.

Moje mišljenje, u vojsku se treba ulagati, i države koje praktično 2 stoljeća nisu imale oružanih sukoba (poput Švicarske) imaju strašne vojne snage, a kamoli na ovom našem nestabilnom Balkanu.
Te s obzirom da četvrta generacija aviona već lagano postaje "staro željezo", zaista nebi imalo smisla potrošiti duplo veći novac na nove F-16 avione, te se zadržati na tom nivou narednih 30 godina, kada se već danas većina država ubrzano opskrbljuje avionima pete generacije, koji će za 20 godina postati norma.

Dakle - Rafale za narednih 15-ak godina, te onda nabava eskadrile F-35-ica.

Uz jednu iznimno bitnu napomenu, dronovi su oružje budućnosti, te bi iz te perspektive MORH trebao krenuti u suradnju sa recimo Amerima ili Izraelcima po tom pitanju (ne Turcima, jer se geostrateški nalazimo na suprotnim stranama), da se nabavi nekoliko takvih strojeva za zračni nadzor, i naravno stjecanje know-how-a po pitanju UAV-a, obrazovanje stručnog kadra koji bi znao koristiti takvu tehnologiju.

Jako dobro objašnjenje. Sviđa mi se.
No, Hrvatska je zbilja da ćemo cidit zrakoplove dok se ne raspadnedu.

Slažem se i za dronove. Oni su već sad zbilja.

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