HercegBosna.org

HercegBosna.org

Forum Hrvata BiH
 
Sada je: 25 tra 2024, 18:15.

Vremenska zona: UTC + 01:00




Započni novu temu Odgovori  [ 10 post(ov)a ] 
Autor/ica Poruka
 Naslov: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 12 ožu 2021, 15:47 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 16:38
Postovi: 1523
Just some thoughts:

1) Neum was a small village until the original Adriatic highway was built in the 1960's. There is currently no infrastructure in place for large ships to dock. I believe the sea is too shallow to allow that. Even today, said highway is the best way to get to Neum from Mostar or Sarajevo. Though plans are in the works to connect Metković and Dubrovnik with a highway and a road is currently being built from Neum to Stolac. Not every country has open access to the sea or the infrastrucure to make use of it.

2) While I would somewhat agree that the most logical path would be to not build the bridge and just build the highway from Metković to Neum and Dubrovnik, there are a couple of problems with that. The main problem being do you really want a choke point for Croatia's north south traffic at Neum to be in the hands of a government in Sarajevo that can be hostile to Croatia? Even if people say that Sarajevo is not overtly hostile to Croatia, then let's consider this current pandemic and a situation to where Sarajevo decided that it is in the best interests of its citizens to seal the country's borders and traffic cannot pass through Neum. It would be strategically be dumb for Croatia to allow for a choke point if there is a way to bypass that.

3) Zagreb and Sarajevo tried to come to an agreement on a highway and not build the bridge. Talks broke down as to how to best police it. I believe Croatia favored a model where they policed that stretch of highway to allow traffic to go uninterrupted and not have to go through customs. Sarajevo shot it down.

4) The main mantra out of politicians in Zagreb has been to stay out of Bosnia's affairs. What would happen if someone hostile decided to march into Neum kill everyone and cut the highway? Would you have the political will in Zagreb to do something about it? Considering that the author failed to mention that Bosnia is not in NATO or in the EU and that Neum itself is the only point on the eastern side of the Adriatic not in NATO, the bridge is not only in Croatia's interest but in NATOs interest to have a uninterrupted land corridor from Slovenia and Greece. Should someone attack the Pelješac bridge itself, you now have all kinds of options on the table to retaliate including military options, and you have the justification to use it.

5) Sarajevo can complain as much as it wants about being dealt a bad hand in this, but I think the country is unstable and personally I think it is a matter of time before "something happens" and like I said earlier Croatia (and NATO) cannot afford a choke point that cuts links to Dubrovnik, to do so is strategically stupid. So yes, Croatia has to watch out for itself and if it comes at the "expense" of Bosnia and Herzegovina so be it. Also, you could come up with whatever model you wanted to to bypass Neum and Sarajevo would probably not like it.

Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/analy ... ge/2173631

ANALYSIS - “A Bridge Too Close?” The geopolitics of the Peljesac Bridge

As the EU funds its latest member state’s national interest, Bosnia’s access to the sea is being restricted
Dr. Hamza Karcic | 12.03.2021

The writer is an associate professor at the Faculty of Political Science at the University of Sarajevo

SARAJEVO

On 7 June 2017, the EU decided to allocate €357 million for the construction of a bridge that will link two parts of Croatian territory. The European Commission statement announcing the funding for the 2.4-km bridge was framed in EU-esque polite-sounding, tourism-friendly language.

The contract to build the bridge was awarded to China’s state-owned China Road and Bridge Corporation (CRBC) in January 2018, with a bidding price of US$340 million without VAT. According to Luka Ivan Jukic, the Peljesac Bridge is the first major EU-funded infrastructure project undertaken by the Chinese. The Chinese company outbid its competitors by committing to complete the project both quicker and cheaper. In April 2019, China’s Prime Minister Li Keqiang visited the construction site with Croatian premier Andrej Plenkovic. Initially scheduled to be completed this year, the project has been pushed back for a year. According to Plenkovic, the construction of the bridge is now scheduled to be completed in June 2022.

This, however, is not a bridge without controversy. Absent from the European Commission statement announcing the funding in 2017 was any mention of the fact that the bridge would block Bosnia and Herzegovina’s access to the open sea. In fact, the Peljesac Bridge seeks to bypass Bosnian territory and the coastal town of Neum. Croatia’s national interest in seeking a contiguous link between two sections of its territory comes at the expense of Bosnia’s access to the sea. Particularly contentious is the height of the bridge – 55 meters –, as it could potentially obstruct the entry of large ships into Bosnian territory.

The Neum corridor is a historical peculiarity. In 1699, the ownership of the small fishing village of Neum passed from the Dubrovnik Republic to the Ottomans. The logic of the Dubrovnik Republic was that this transfer of control would help insulate them from conquest by Venetians. In other words, by transferring control to the Ottomans, the Dubrovnik Republic was establishing an Ottoman-controlled buffer zone with the Venetians. As Dr. Andras Riedlmayer of Harvard University points out, during the Austro-Hungarian administration of Bosnia (1878-1918) and during the two Yugoslavias (1918-1992), the Neum border was an internal one.

Two recent historical events led to the current controversy and the dispute between Croatia and Bosnia. First, Yugoslavia’s dissolution in the early 1990s left Croatia with the longest coastline and Bosnia with just 12 miles between Croatian territory. It was in the aftermath of the Yugoslav dissolution that the Neum corridor became an international border.

When Croatia and Bosnia were part of Yugoslavia, the rationale for the bridge did not exist as it was all one country. Due to the breakup of Yugoslavia, traveling from the historical city of Dubrovnik to Split now entails passing through Bosnia and its border checkpoints. The Croatian-Bosnian borders on the Adriatic, according to Foreign Policy’s Michael Dobbs, is “the world’s most ridiculous border.” Then, in 2013, Croatia joined the EU and the imperative of beefing up the EU’s external borders took hold. Two factors combined to determine Croatia’s, and now the EU’s, drive to build the bridge. The Neum corridor, which divides Croatian territory, will be bypassed through the construction of the Peljesac Bridge.

The Peljesac Bridge has been in the works for a long time, and there has been much debate about its construction over the last fifteen years. The project had seemed to be shelved when the Great Recession struck, only to be resuscitated when the European Commission allocated most of the necessary funding in 2017.

In Bosnia, Bosnian Croat officials have toed Croatia’s line. It is Bosniak politicians who have spoken out – mostly in a haphazard fashion – against the construction of the bridge. Their objections to the Peljesac Bridge have taken the form of inconsequential open letters aimed far more at domestic political consumption than at altering Croatia’s determined course. Several high-level Bosniak officials are said to hold dual citizenship (Bosnian and Croatian) as well as real estate interests in Croatia, which may explain their convenient silence amid this controversy.

Given Bosnia’s coastline of only 12 miles, the construction of the Peljesac Bridge has geopolitical implications. Ken Jennings writes that Bosnia has the “second shortest coastline in the world” – after Monaco. For a country with a history of repeated neighborly attempts to carve it out, Bosnia’s continued access to the Adriatic Sea is vital.

In short, a Chinese state-owned company currently building a Croatian bridge with EU money for the purpose of bypassing Bosnian territory has raised concerns among Bosniaks, who are worried about the country’s future security.

As the EU funds its latest member state’s national interest, Bosnia’s access to the sea is being restricted. In the event of a potential conflict, access to the open sea is crucial for the country’s defense. What the Peljesac Bridge controversy shows is that membership in the EU can help a country pursue a national interest it would otherwise be unable to achieve. Dealt a bad hand, Bosnia can play it best by pursuing NATO membership for the purpose of safeguarding its internal peace and external borders.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 12 ožu 2021, 18:30 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 08 sij 2010, 18:56
Postovi: 5403
Stecak je napisao/la:
Just some thoughts:

1) Neum was a small village until the original Adriatic highway was built in the 1960's. There is currently no infrastructure in place for large ships to dock. I believe the sea is too shallow to allow that. Even today, said highway is the best way to get to Neum from Mostar or Sarajevo. Though plans are in the works to connect Metković and Dubrovnik with a highway and a road is currently being built from Neum to Stolac. Not every country has open access to the sea or the infrastrucure to make use of it.

2) While I would somewhat agree that the most logical path would be to not build the bridge and just build the highway from Metković to Neum and Dubrovnik, there are a couple of problems with that. The main problem being do you really want a choke point for Croatia's north south traffic at Neum to be in the hands of a government in Sarajevo that can be hostile to Croatia? Even if people say that Sarajevo is not overtly hostile to Croatia, then let's consider this current pandemic and a situation to where Sarajevo decided that it is in the best interests of its citizens to seal the country's borders and traffic cannot pass through Neum. It would be strategically be dumb for Croatia to allow for a choke point if there is a way to bypass that.

3) Zagreb and Sarajevo tried to come to an agreement on a highway and not build the bridge. Talks broke down as to how to best police it. I believe Croatia favored a model where they policed that stretch of highway to allow traffic to go uninterrupted and not have to go through customs. Sarajevo shot it down.

4) The main mantra out of politicians in Zagreb has been to stay out of Bosnia's affairs. What would happen if someone hostile decided to march into Neum kill everyone and cut the highway? Would you have the political will in Zagreb to do something about it? Considering that the author failed to mention that Bosnia is not in NATO or in the EU and that Neum itself is the only point on the eastern side of the Adriatic not in NATO, the bridge is not only in Croatia's interest but in NATOs interest to have a uninterrupted land corridor from Slovenia and Greece. Should someone attack the Pelješac bridge itself, you now have all kinds of options on the table to retaliate including military options, and you have the justification to use it.

5) Sarajevo can complain as much as it wants about being dealt a bad hand in this, but I think the country is unstable and personally I think it is a matter of time before "something happens" and like I said earlier Croatia (and NATO) cannot afford a choke point that cuts links to Dubrovnik, to do so is strategically stupid. So yes, Croatia has to watch out for itself and if it comes at the "expense" of Bosnia and Herzegovina so be it. Also, you could come up with whatever model you wanted to to bypass Neum and Sarajevo would probably not like it.

Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/analy ... ge/2173631

.

"First, Yugoslavia’s dissolution in the early 1990s left Croatia with the longest coastline" - Is wrong statement!
Croatia with its coastline, joined that Yugoslavia!
We still remember how Sarajevo was "friendly" when they wanted to ban St. Mass for the victims of the Second World War in Bleiburg!
Welcome Peljesac bridge!

_________________
MIR da, ali ne kao u Macelju, Ovčari i Hudim jamama!
Komunisti nude bolju budućnost, neuspješni u sadašnjosti, a razlog je uvijek u prošlosti!
Želiš stvoriti neprijatelja – spasi ga od genocida!


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 12 ožu 2021, 18:52 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 16:38
Postovi: 1523
MIR je napisao/la:
"First, Yugoslavia’s dissolution in the early 1990s left Croatia with the longest coastline" - Is wrong statement!
Croatia with its coastline, joined that Yugoslavia!
We still remember how Sarajevo was "friendly" when they wanted to ban St. Mass for the victims of the Second World War in Bleiburg!
Welcome Peljesac bridge!


Croatian forces handed over a large swath of territory that they captured from the Serbs in Western Bosnia in order for Sarajevo to gain control of its surrounding areas. The politicians in Sarajevo were dumb enough to get themselves surrounded by the Serbs and did not prepare their people for war. Croatia could have used that territory to negotiate for a larger piece of Posavina.

What thanks did Croatia get for Croatians dying so that territory could be handed over to Sarajevo? "Joint Criminal Enterprise" and general satanization of Croats in BiH by Sarajevo. ...


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 15 ožu 2021, 22:05 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 16:38
Postovi: 1523
Interesting, but I think some facts are overlooked like Neum being predominantly Croatian and would veto any port facilities.



Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 16 ožu 2021, 17:21 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 08 sij 2010, 18:56
Postovi: 5403
Stecak je napisao/la:
Interesting, but I think some facts are overlooked like Neum being predominantly Croatian and would veto any port facilities.


Very interesting, but the bridge is no wall and does not prevent normal sea traffic!

_________________
MIR da, ali ne kao u Macelju, Ovčari i Hudim jamama!
Komunisti nude bolju budućnost, neuspješni u sadašnjosti, a razlog je uvijek u prošlosti!
Želiš stvoriti neprijatelja – spasi ga od genocida!


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 16 ožu 2021, 17:58 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 21:39
Postovi: 58914
Lokacija: DAZP HQ
Stecak je napisao/la:
Interesting, but I think some facts are overlooked like Neum being predominantly Croatian and would veto any port facilities.



Watch till the end, you will notice it in the very last conclusion.

_________________
"Hrvata je danas u BiH manje od 400.000, ali je naš cilj da nas je milijun", kazao je Čović.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 16 ožu 2021, 19:01 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 16:38
Postovi: 1523
dudu je napisao/la:


Watch till the end, you will notice it in the very last conclusion.[/quote]

Thank you dudu. They mention it in passing which is why I missed it the first time.

Also, one thing no one ever mentions is exactly where Sarajevo would like to build a port. If they plan to build it near the town of Neum inside the Klek peninsula, I don't see where one would possibly fit...

Privitak:
Neum_Satellite.JPG
Neum_Satellite.JPG [ 138.04 KiB | Pogledano 2103 put/a. ]


Privitak:
Neum_Google_Maps.JPG
Neum_Google_Maps.JPG [ 45.53 KiB | Pogledano 2103 put/a. ]


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 12 lip 2021, 02:24 
Online
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 10:29
Postovi: 69307
Lokacija: hrvatsko-hrvatska Federacija
Stecak je napisao/la:
Just some thoughts:

1) Neum was a small village until the original Adriatic highway was built in the 1960's. There is currently no infrastructure in place for large ships to dock. I believe the sea is too shallow to allow that. Even today, said highway is the best way to get to Neum from Mostar or Sarajevo. Though plans are in the works to connect Metković and Dubrovnik with a highway and a road is currently being built from Neum to Stolac. Not every country has open access to the sea or the infrastrucure to make use of it.

2) While I would somewhat agree that the most logical path would be to not build the bridge and just build the highway from Metković to Neum and Dubrovnik, there are a couple of problems with that. The main problem being do you really want a choke point for Croatia's north south traffic at Neum to be in the hands of a government in Sarajevo that can be hostile to Croatia? Even if people say that Sarajevo is not overtly hostile to Croatia, then let's consider this current pandemic and a situation to where Sarajevo decided that it is in the best interests of its citizens to seal the country's borders and traffic cannot pass through Neum. It would be strategically be dumb for Croatia to allow for a choke point if there is a way to bypass that.

3) Zagreb and Sarajevo tried to come to an agreement on a highway and not build the bridge. Talks broke down as to how to best police it. I believe Croatia favored a model where they policed that stretch of highway to allow traffic to go uninterrupted and not have to go through customs. Sarajevo shot it down.

4) The main mantra out of politicians in Zagreb has been to stay out of Bosnia's affairs. What would happen if someone hostile decided to march into Neum kill everyone and cut the highway? Would you have the political will in Zagreb to do something about it? Considering that the author failed to mention that Bosnia is not in NATO or in the EU and that Neum itself is the only point on the eastern side of the Adriatic not in NATO, the bridge is not only in Croatia's interest but in NATOs interest to have a uninterrupted land corridor from Slovenia and Greece. Should someone attack the Pelješac bridge itself, you now have all kinds of options on the table to retaliate including military options, and you have the justification to use it.

5) Sarajevo can complain as much as it wants about being dealt a bad hand in this, but I think the country is unstable and personally I think it is a matter of time before "something happens" and like I said earlier Croatia (and NATO) cannot afford a choke point that cuts links to Dubrovnik, to do so is strategically stupid. So yes, Croatia has to watch out for itself and if it comes at the "expense" of Bosnia and Herzegovina so be it. Also, you could come up with whatever model you wanted to to bypass Neum and Sarajevo would probably not like it.

Source: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/analysis/analy ... ge/2173631

ANALYSIS - “A Bridge Too Close?” The geopolitics of the Peljesac Bridge

As the EU funds its latest member state’s national interest, Bosnia’s access to the sea is being restricted
Dr. Hamza Karcic | 12.03.2021

The writer is an associate professor at the Faculty of Political Science at the University of Sarajevo

SARAJEVO

On 7 June 2017, the EU decided to allocate €357 million for the construction of a bridge that will link two parts of Croatian territory. The European Commission statement announcing the funding for the 2.4-km bridge was framed in EU-esque polite-sounding, tourism-friendly language.

The contract to build the bridge was awarded to China’s state-owned China Road and Bridge Corporation (CRBC) in January 2018, with a bidding price of US$340 million without VAT. According to Luka Ivan Jukic, the Peljesac Bridge is the first major EU-funded infrastructure project undertaken by the Chinese. The Chinese company outbid its competitors by committing to complete the project both quicker and cheaper. In April 2019, China’s Prime Minister Li Keqiang visited the construction site with Croatian premier Andrej Plenkovic. Initially scheduled to be completed this year, the project has been pushed back for a year. According to Plenkovic, the construction of the bridge is now scheduled to be completed in June 2022.

This, however, is not a bridge without controversy. Absent from the European Commission statement announcing the funding in 2017 was any mention of the fact that the bridge would block Bosnia and Herzegovina’s access to the open sea. In fact, the Peljesac Bridge seeks to bypass Bosnian territory and the coastal town of Neum. Croatia’s national interest in seeking a contiguous link between two sections of its territory comes at the expense of Bosnia’s access to the sea. Particularly contentious is the height of the bridge – 55 meters –, as it could potentially obstruct the entry of large ships into Bosnian territory.

The Neum corridor is a historical peculiarity. In 1699, the ownership of the small fishing village of Neum passed from the Dubrovnik Republic to the Ottomans. The logic of the Dubrovnik Republic was that this transfer of control would help insulate them from conquest by Venetians. In other words, by transferring control to the Ottomans, the Dubrovnik Republic was establishing an Ottoman-controlled buffer zone with the Venetians. As Dr. Andras Riedlmayer of Harvard University points out, during the Austro-Hungarian administration of Bosnia (1878-1918) and during the two Yugoslavias (1918-1992), the Neum border was an internal one.

Two recent historical events led to the current controversy and the dispute between Croatia and Bosnia. First, Yugoslavia’s dissolution in the early 1990s left Croatia with the longest coastline and Bosnia with just 12 miles between Croatian territory. It was in the aftermath of the Yugoslav dissolution that the Neum corridor became an international border.

When Croatia and Bosnia were part of Yugoslavia, the rationale for the bridge did not exist as it was all one country. Due to the breakup of Yugoslavia, traveling from the historical city of Dubrovnik to Split now entails passing through Bosnia and its border checkpoints. The Croatian-Bosnian borders on the Adriatic, according to Foreign Policy’s Michael Dobbs, is “the world’s most ridiculous border.” Then, in 2013, Croatia joined the EU and the imperative of beefing up the EU’s external borders took hold. Two factors combined to determine Croatia’s, and now the EU’s, drive to build the bridge. The Neum corridor, which divides Croatian territory, will be bypassed through the construction of the Peljesac Bridge.

The Peljesac Bridge has been in the works for a long time, and there has been much debate about its construction over the last fifteen years. The project had seemed to be shelved when the Great Recession struck, only to be resuscitated when the European Commission allocated most of the necessary funding in 2017.

In Bosnia, Bosnian Croat officials have toed Croatia’s line. It is Bosniak politicians who have spoken out – mostly in a haphazard fashion – against the construction of the bridge. Their objections to the Peljesac Bridge have taken the form of inconsequential open letters aimed far more at domestic political consumption than at altering Croatia’s determined course. Several high-level Bosniak officials are said to hold dual citizenship (Bosnian and Croatian) as well as real estate interests in Croatia, which may explain their convenient silence amid this controversy.

Given Bosnia’s coastline of only 12 miles, the construction of the Peljesac Bridge has geopolitical implications. Ken Jennings writes that Bosnia has the “second shortest coastline in the world” – after Monaco. For a country with a history of repeated neighborly attempts to carve it out, Bosnia’s continued access to the Adriatic Sea is vital.

In short, a Chinese state-owned company currently building a Croatian bridge with EU money for the purpose of bypassing Bosnian territory has raised concerns among Bosniaks, who are worried about the country’s future security.

As the EU funds its latest member state’s national interest, Bosnia’s access to the sea is being restricted. In the event of a potential conflict, access to the open sea is crucial for the country’s defense. What the Peljesac Bridge controversy shows is that membership in the EU can help a country pursue a national interest it would otherwise be unable to achieve. Dealt a bad hand, Bosnia can play it best by pursuing NATO membership for the purpose of safeguarding its internal peace and external borders.



The author plainly admits that Bosnian Muslims (“Bosniaks”) would like to control Neum - for future conflicts with Croats.
They are thinking about “the next war”.

Croatian Defense Council (HVO) kept the Muslim Army more than 50km away from the coast and today Neum is a part of the majority-Croat autonomous canton within the Croat-Muslim Federation. The town itself is 98% Croat per the last census.

_________________
Fun fact: I HDZ i SDA su osnovani u Zagrebu.
Vojni proračun Bošnji je manji od proračuna Dinama

IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIooooooooooo


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 28 srp 2021, 15:28 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 16:38
Postovi: 1523
Source: https://www.vecernji.hr/vijesti/dok-se- ... lo-1511416

Translation by Google...

How they experience the connection of the Pelješac Bridge in Neum: 'All the people will go around!'

Particularly concerned are tourism-oriented workers who have shops along the road. They say that a large number of passengers going to Dubrovnik stop in Neum and spend there

Croatia will finally be fully connected on Wednesday night after Chinese contractors install the last of the 165 segments of the load-bearing steel structure in the Peljesac Bridge. However, the view of the Pelješac Bridge arouses fear and unrest in Neum among tourist workers.

"There are no positives here. All the people around will go around, Neum will be bypassed, as well as every municipality that is at the end of the road. When the bridge opens, we will no longer have work to do, ”said Kemal, a catering worker for N1.

"There will be a certain decline, in the winter in the facilities that are directly on the Adriatic tourist road there will be some minus, we will do less than we did and we will have to look for some new roads," said Stanko Raic, restaurant owner.

But it's not all about financial losses, says the mayor. The positive side of the Pelješac Bridge is that the traffic at GP Klek 1 and Klek 2 will be relieved, where huge crowds are created in the summer months. "What is the scope and whether it will significantly affect Neum, we will see only when the bridge opens. I think the bridge should have been built like all other bridges. Croatia has the right to connect its coast, its territory ", said Dragan Jurković, the mayor of Neum.

The bridge will physically connect Komarna and Brijesta, shorten the journey from Zagreb to Dubrovnik by two hours, shorten the waiting time for passengers at the GP in Neum, and bring numerous benefits to the local population.

"We can't wait, we are looking forward to going over our bridge," "This will be a tourist attraction, there will be a lookout and everything," said some of the citizens.


Vrh
   
 
 Naslov: Re: The geopolitics of the Pelješac Bridge
PostPostano: 31 srp 2021, 04:01 
Offline
Avatar

Pridružen/a: 08 sij 2010, 18:56
Postovi: 5403
Croatia Celebrates Joining of Peljesac Bridge

slika

The Chinese-built Peljesac Bridge, connecting Croatia's mainland with its southernmost region – long opposed by Bosnia – was finally joined together on Wednesday night, though drivers will have to wait till next spring to cross it.
https://balkaninsight.com/2021/07/29/cr ... ac-bridge/


_________________
MIR da, ali ne kao u Macelju, Ovčari i Hudim jamama!
Komunisti nude bolju budućnost, neuspješni u sadašnjosti, a razlog je uvijek u prošlosti!
Želiš stvoriti neprijatelja – spasi ga od genocida!


Vrh
   
 
Prikaži postove “stare”:  Redanje  
Započni novu temu Odgovori  [ 10 post(ov)a ] 

Vremenska zona: UTC + 01:00


Online

Trenutno korisnika/ca: / i 15 gostiju.


Ne možeš započinjati nove teme.
Ne možeš odgovarati na postove.
Ne možeš uređivati svoje postove.
Ne možeš izbrisati svoje postove.
Ne možeš postati privitke.

Forum(o)Bir:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Facebook 2011 By Damien Keitel
Template made by DEVPPL - HR (CRO) by Ančica Sečan
phpBB SEO