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 Naslov: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 16:37 
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Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 17:38
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Wow none of us here would have ever guessed that BiH needs fixing... (this is sarcasm BTW)

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/04/opini ... ixing.html

Bosnia Still Needs Fixing

IN the Bosnian city of Mostar, a beautiful Ottoman-era limestone bridge called the Stari Most arched over the Neretva River for 427 years, surviving earthquakes and two world wars. After a barrage of shelling in 1993, during the Bosnian civil war, the bridge collapsed. Citizens were stranded on opposite sides of the riverbank. Ethnic strain wasn’t the cause. It was the effect. Across the country, the war itself was dividing citizens into three ethno-nationalist clusters: Bosnian Serbs, Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks). Twenty years after the war began, and 17 years after the Dayton accords brought the fighting to an end, the bridge stands again, and a shallow peace prevails.

But now, the compromises we made to end the killing increasingly look inadequate, and it’s time to begin fixing them.

Mostar is still split: the west bank is primarily Croat, the east Bosniak. It is one city, but it has separate universities, postal services, health care systems and phone networks — and it can’t agree on how to elect a city council. Political institutions that were supposed to reconcile a divided society are ineffective; ethnic quotas at all levels of government breed nepotism; children study in classes divided according to their parentage; economic development has stagnated. And the populace feels angry and hopeless about the future.

Meanwhile, the international community has mostly turned its back on its own handiwork.

The 1995 Dayton agreement ended the worst bloodletting in Europe since World War II. The warring factions were brought together only with enormous pressures and incentives from the outside, including military strikes and the promise that other countries would continue to enforce the peace and extend economic assistance. The agreement provided for early elections and set up an unusual political structure, but it was imperfect. We knew that then.

Still, it was the best we could achieve, and, as the late Richard C. Holbrooke said at the time, the most important thing was to stop the killing.

In retrospect, we can see how some of Bosnia’s difficulties are our own fault. Early on, we had too simply labeled the violence as a clash of ethnic groups, roughly equal in their responsibilities to reconcile, when in fact they had been manipulated toward war primarily by Serbian nationalist leaders. We had ignored Bosnia’s experience before 1992, when its citizens from different ethnic groups were very often friends, colleagues, neighbors and spouses — and even during the war, when there were immeasurable acts of generosity across the ethnic divides. Had we outsiders realized that the violence was not inevitable, and had we been willing to name Serbs as the primary aggressors early in the war, NATO forces could have intervened much earlier and saved tens of thousands of lives.

But we came in late, and by the time we did, hatred and fighting had shaped the political and military balances we had to work with. That produced an agreement that institutionalized ethnicity as the deciding factor in political and social identity. It divided power and representation according to whether citizens were Bosniaks, Serbs or Croats, leaving little room to organize along other lines — for example, gender and level of urbanization.

Today, as set out at Dayton, Bosnia’s presidency is a triumvirate; each of the three members must be identified with one of the so-called constituent peoples. This slows down decision making and excludes minorities, as well as the large number of Bosnians who don’t identify with one of the major groups. In fact, two would-be presidential contenders, a Roma and a Jew, won a ruling in the European Court of Human Rights in 2009 that required constitutional revisions that would give neglected minorities equal opportunities to serve in government. Three years later, that reform is still being debated by Bosnian political leaders, who owe their positions to the status quo.

Dayton also divided the country itself into two separate statelets — a Bosniak-Croat federation and a Serb republic — governed by the same legislature and presidency. At the time, many Bosnian women’s groups, religious leaders, civil society activists and students warned that the arrangement wouldn’t work because the country historically had been integrated. But they weren’t at the negotiating table; only those with the power to fight or to lay down their weapons were invited.

In retrospect, perhaps we could have done better to engage politically unrepresented groups who craved stability, so that they could sit alongside those who knew how to fight.

The compromises at Dayton stopped the killing, but also helped perpetuate the ethnic chauvinism, fear and greed that had set it off. And now, the international community bears some responsibility to keep Bosnia from ever relapsing into violence. We also must help Bosnians fashion a better political system, one that promotes national unity, effective decision making and democratic participation.

Three moves would make a huge difference.

First, the American and European governments must help Bosnia change the Constitution we helped create.

Second, after the Constitution has been revised, the European Union should reward Bosnia by granting it membership. Serbia, after all, was given candidate status — a critical step toward full membership — in March, and Croatia is scheduled to become a full member next year. Europe should also extend more financial and technical assistance to implement the reforms needed to re-establish a pluralistic society and secure candidate status for Bosnia (which the European Union treats as a “potential candidate” for membership).

Third, NATO needs to offer the country a clear path for joining the alliance; it will have an opportunity to do so later this month when NATO holds a summit meeting in Chicago. Many Bosnians of all ethnicities look at membership in NATO as a guarantee of security, prosperity and stability. In addition, the military is the one Bosnian institution in which ethnic differences have mattered least; recently, when Serbian veterans’ benefits were cut, Bosniak veterans raised money to give to the people who once fought against them.

We also need to encourage and support the kind of moderate high-level and grass-roots leaders we overlooked during the negotiations 20 years ago. They are the real heroes of the war — and of the peace.

One such person is Kada Hotic, a leader of Bosnian Muslim survivors of the war. Only last June, she was finally able to bury three small bones — the only remains that could be identified of her son, who died in the infamous massacre of Muslims by Serbian fighters in 1995.

Yet Ms. Hotic offers: “Maybe one day we can close the story of war and move toward genuine reconciliation. Everyone has suffered. When those men killed my son, they killed themselves. I forgive them, and so I live.”

Swanee G. Hunt, a former United States ambassador to Austria, is the author of “Worlds Apart: Bosnian Lessons for Global Security.” Wesley K. Clark, a retired Army general and former supreme allied commander of NATO in Europe, is a senior fellow at the Burkle Center for International Relations at the University of California, Los Angeles.


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 19:15 
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Pridružen/a: 21 kol 2011, 16:34
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Fixing ? I would rather say general repair .

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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 19:26 
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Pridružen/a: 05 lis 2010, 12:48
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It needs last sacrament. And burial.

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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 19:34 
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Pridružen/a: 30 svi 2009, 23:01
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There is no tools in the world that can fix Bosnia.


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 19:39 
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Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 22:11
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Stecak je napisao/la:

Mostar is still split: the west bank is primarily Croat, the east Bosniak. It is one city, but it has separate universities, postal services, health care systems and phone networks — and it can’t agree on how to elect a city council. Political institutions that were supposed to reconcile a divided society are ineffective; ethnic quotas at all levels of government breed nepotism; children study in classes divided according to their parentage; economic development has stagnated. And the populace feels angry and hopeless about the future.



We have to say clearly - Because Muslims from Mostar don't want united city.

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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 19:55 
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Pridružen/a: 21 kol 2011, 16:34
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lider30 je napisao/la:
Stecak je napisao/la:

Mostar is still split: the west bank is primarily Croat, the east Bosniak. It is one city, but it has separate universities, postal services, health care systems and phone networks — and it can’t agree on how to elect a city council. Political institutions that were supposed to reconcile a divided society are ineffective; ethnic quotas at all levels of government breed nepotism; children study in classes divided according to their parentage; economic development has stagnated. And the populace feels angry and hopeless about the future.



We have to say clearly - Because Muslims from Mostar don't want united city.


Those anti-Mostar forces will be defeated soon , and we will have united and European Mostar in Bosnia and Herzegovina :D .

_________________
Te kad mi jednom s dušom po svemiru se krene,
Zaorit ću ko grom:
O, gledajte ju divnu, vi zvijezde udivljene,
To moj je, moj je dom!


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 21:35 
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Pridružen/a: 07 svi 2009, 13:19
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Zadar1993 je napisao/la:
Fixing ? I would rather say general repair .


I though it was "Bosnia Still Needs FISTING" :D


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 04 svi 2012, 23:05 
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Pridružen/a: 01 stu 2009, 23:53
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Europe is too focused on saving itself at the moment and the Americans are busy elsewhere and have simply outsourced Bosnia to Turkey. This is the moment for fait accomplis to be put on the ground as the Serbs are doing with Russian investment and as we are doing in places like Mostar.

The future of this fake state is not at all as bright as it was during Ashdown's tenure.

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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 05 svi 2012, 13:11 
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Pridružen/a: 11 vel 2012, 13:30
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The future is bleak.


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 05 svi 2012, 19:50 
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Pridružen/a: 24 lis 2011, 14:53
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Zepce Jugend je napisao/la:
Zadar1993 je napisao/la:
Fixing ? I would rather say general repair .


I though it was "Bosnia Still Needs FISTING" :D


:sega


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 07 svi 2012, 16:56 
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Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 17:38
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max soldo je napisao/la:
Europe is too focused on saving itself at the moment and the Americans are busy elsewhere and have simply outsourced Bosnia to Turkey. This is the moment for fait accomplis to be put on the ground as the Serbs are doing with Russian investment and as we are doing in places like Mostar.

The future of this fake state is not at all as bright as it was during Ashdown's tenure.


Max I don't know how successful the Turks are going to be and I find it odd that the powers that be would allow Turkey to take a lead in Bosnia when I doubt Turkey would have anything to gain other then maybe a feather in their cap that they could say they did something. Ithink we all agree that Turkey involving itself in Bosnia already alienates at least 1/2 of the people in the country who do not subscribe to Ceric's belief that Turkey is their mother, and who are hostile to or at the very least suspicious of Turkey's goals. Maybe the pwers that be are trying to distract the Turks or something but I think the Turks would rather play a more active role i their immediate neighborhood and maybe creating a moment for their "fait accompli" in places like Northern Iraq or Syria...

...which reminds me if we have overlapping "fait accomplis" and if Europe cannot straighten them out for whatever reason are we opening up a pandora's box to turn the map of Europe on its head?

Zepce Jugend: :smijeh I had to re-read the title of this thread because I thought maybe I did write fisting!


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 08 svi 2012, 03:10 
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Pridružen/a: 01 stu 2009, 23:53
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Stecak je napisao/la:
max soldo je napisao/la:
Europe is too focused on saving itself at the moment and the Americans are busy elsewhere and have simply outsourced Bosnia to Turkey. This is the moment for fait accomplis to be put on the ground as the Serbs are doing with Russian investment and as we are doing in places like Mostar.

The future of this fake state is not at all as bright as it was during Ashdown's tenure.


Max I don't know how successful the Turks are going to be and I find it odd that the powers that be would allow Turkey to take a lead in Bosnia when I doubt Turkey would have anything to gain other then maybe a feather in their cap that they could say they did something. Ithink we all agree that Turkey involving itself in Bosnia already alienates at least 1/2 of the people in the country who do not subscribe to Ceric's belief that Turkey is their mother, and who are hostile to or at the very least suspicious of Turkey's goals. Maybe the pwers that be are trying to distract the Turks or something but I think the Turks would rather play a more active role i their immediate neighborhood and maybe creating a moment for their "fait accompli" in places like Northern Iraq or Syria...


Turkey is fully onside with the USA in two out of three strategic zones:

1. Balkans - with the goal to keep the region destabilized and out of the grasp of both the Germans and the Russians
2. Caucasus - with the goal to keep the "fires under Russia burning" so as to place the USA within Central Asia so that the USA/UK can divert oil and gas resources away from Russian control and therefore themselves control the flow to Europe and China, thus gaining leverage

Turkey is 50/50 with the USA in the Middle East:

1. Israel - this is the main focus for problems between the USA and Turkey as the Turks take on a more aggressive role in the region championing Arab causes
2. Iraq - Turkey as a stabilizing factor with the trade off that the Iraqi Kurds won't allow Turkish Kurds to use their autonomous region as a staging ground for attacks
3. Syria - the removal of pro-Russian/Chinese Assad regime

In short, Turkey is an American agent in the Balkans...an addition to the American/Brit/Saudi alliance that first bore fruit in Afghanistan in 1979. Turkey has its economic/political/cultural goals in the region and is an important pillar in NATO while serving as the key southern flank against Russia.

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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 08 svi 2012, 17:40 
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Pridružen/a: 18 kol 2009, 17:38
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max soldo je napisao/la:

Turkey is fully onside with the USA in two out of three strategic zones:

1. Balkans - with the goal to keep the region destabilized and out of the grasp of both the Germans and the Russians
2. Caucasus - with the goal to keep the "fires under Russia burning" so as to place the USA within Central Asia so that the USA/UK can divert oil and gas resources away from Russian control and therefore themselves control the flow to Europe and China, thus gaining leverage


That makes sense when I think about what I posted about Bosnia. BUT destabilized is different then going over the cliff and that's where I think the bets are off. I was reading an article about Macedonia and a possible threat of inter ethnic war breaking out because of the rise in tensions between the Macedonians and Albanians. I have always felt Macedonia to be a tipping point in the region. If Macedonia blows up the I think it might set off a chain reaction encompasing the wider region and spill over into areas like the Caucuses.

Now if we're talking about resources then I think an all out war is the last thing the US would want to have breaking out because they could theoretically get cut off from resources. The 21st century I think will be all about who can control resources both natural and human and I think that conflicts will happen because of it.

Speaking of resources and Germany, I have been wondering about the election in France and I have been seeing the commentary that Germany will be alone in EU, etc but this is where I think some countries will benefit in this crisis by seeing that there are opportunities in this crisis. So could parts of the Balkans slip under the control of Germany and/or Russia when all of this is said and done?

Citat:
Turkey is 50/50 with the USA in the Middle East:

1. Israel - this is the main focus for problems between the USA and Turkey as the Turks take on a more aggressive role in the region championing Arab causes
2. Iraq - Turkey as a stabilizing factor with the trade off that the Iraqi Kurds won't allow Turkish Kurds to use their autonomous region as a staging ground for attacks
3. Syria - the removal of pro-Russian/Chinese Assad regime

In short, Turkey is an American agent in the Balkans...an addition to the American/Brit/Saudi alliance that first bore fruit in Afghanistan in 1979. Turkey has its economic/political/cultural goals in the region and is an important pillar in NATO while serving as the key southern flank against Russia.


I think point #2 is also problematic. Turkey will not allow the strengthening of Kurdish autonomy in Northern Iraq period, especially if the Kurds can generate a boom economy using the oil fields in Kirkuk. A strong autonomous Kurdistan in Iraq will give Kurds in Iran, Turkey and Syria funny ideas... Not to mention the Turks claim Northen Iraq as theirs and they got the shaft from the Brits in the 20's who gave it to Iraq when oil was discovered there...


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 Naslov: Re: Bosnia Still Needs Fixing
PostPostano: 08 svi 2012, 19:25 
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Pridružen/a: 21 kol 2011, 16:34
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Zepce Jugend je napisao/la:
Zadar1993 je napisao/la:
Fixing ? I would rather say general repair .


I though it was "Bosnia Still Needs FISTING" :D


Yes, it is the best word for the case :D .

_________________
Te kad mi jednom s dušom po svemiru se krene,
Zaorit ću ko grom:
O, gledajte ju divnu, vi zvijezde udivljene,
To moj je, moj je dom!


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