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Ministry of Sound
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Naslov: Q dokument - izgubljeni tekst Isusovih citata Postano: 14 kol 2013, 10:16 |
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Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 09:25 Postovi: 43752 Lokacija: Folklorni Jugoslaven, praktični Hrvat
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Za sada samo hipoteza... http://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_dokumentCitat: The Q Document, if it exists, is probably the single most influential thing recorded, like, in the history of ever.
This is because the Q Document supposedly contains the lion's share of the collected teachings of Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth, and is the suspected source for many of his quotes in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke.
Basically, the Gospels of Matthew and Luke were written apart from each other, but there are certain sections to them that are nearly identical, right down to identical phrasing. So, some scholars think that means both books were referencing the same document. A document that apparently contained Jesus' teachings. A document that has never been found.
But if it's out there, somewhere, holy crap. The parts they used from it are the really important sections: the Golden rule, the Beatitudes, the Lord's Prayer, a bunch of parables... literally enough stuff to found an entire religion with. And that's only the parts they used.
What else was in there? We'll never know.
So What Happened?
The mere existence of the document is the subject of heated discussion (as is, well, everything having to do with the subject of where the Bible came from). This has nothing to do with whether or not you believe in Christianity, by the way. The point is, the Gospels seem to be borrowing from a collection of sayings of someone who was, at the very least, one of the most influential teachers in human history. And we don't have the document they were referencing.
Keep in mind, working with what wound up in the Bible alone, we only have a few hours' worth of information on the life of Jesus of Nazareth. The dude was a freaking rabbi. There had to have been more to his teachings, never mind conversations, jokes and witticisms. Think of how the evolution of Western culture would have changed if we had more specific writings from Jesus on, say, slavery, or homosexuality, or abortion, or women's rights.
Scholars arguing against the existence of the Q Document rightfully point out that this would have been a hell of a thing for the early church to lose. And it would have been lost a long, long time ago. We can't even find records of people referring to the document, no matter how far back we go.
Either way, if the Q Document ever existed, it is likely gone forever; buried in the middle of the desert, or even worse... erased from memory.
_________________ sklon'se bona Zineta sa penđera, vidiš da te vlasi oćima kurišu
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Mar-kan
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Naslov: Re: Q dokument - izgubljeni tekst Isusovih citata Postano: 15 kol 2013, 13:14 |
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Pridružen/a: 03 svi 2009, 15:45 Postovi: 32480
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To su stare teorije,francuske teorije su još složenije,iako imaju još manje dokaza negoli za njemačku o dva izvora. Vaganay jedan od izvora označava sa S (source-izvor),itd.Ako nekog zanima,skeniraćemo i to,ali čisto sumnjam:-) Uglavnom,dosta toga se spominje i objašnjava u predgovorima Evanđelja,u Jeruzalemskoj Bibliji... Btw,veliki teolog i naučnik dr.Gregory Boyd: Citat: “što se tiče dokumenta Q, to nije otkriće već teorija koja postoji oko stoljeće i po, koja pokušava da objasni materijal koji je zajednički za Evanđelje po Luci i Mateju. Ono što je novo jeste veoma sumnjiv način koji koriste lijevo orijentirani naučnici u svojim pretpostavkama kako bi razdvojili ovo hipotetičko Q na različite slojeve legendarnog razvoja i dali potporu svojim unaprijed smišljenim teorijama.
John Dominic Crossan,možda najuticajniji naučnik u Seminaru o Isusu, iznio je neke velike tvrdnje o Evanđelju zvanom Tajno evanđelje po Marku. U stvari, on tvrdi da bi Tajno evanđelje po Marku moglo u stvari da bude necenzurisana verzija Evanđelja po Marku, koja sadrži povjerljive stvari za duhovno upućene. Neki su to koristili za tvrdnju da je Isus u stvari bio čarobnjak, ili da je veliki broj prvih kršćana upražnjavao homoseksualnost. Ovaj scenario je zaokupio maštu medija,bez ikakvih dokaza...
Boyd kaže:
“Vidite, nemamo Tajno evanđelje po Marku...Ono što imamo je jedan naučnik koji je pronašao navod Klementa Aleksandrijskog, iz kraja drugog stoljeća, koji navodno dolazi iz ovog Evanđelja. A sada je, tajanstveno, čak i to nestalo.
“Mi ga nemamo, nemamo nikakav citat iz njega, a čak i kada bi smo imali citat, ne bi smo imali nikakvih razloga da vjerujemo da nam daje bilo kakvu vjerodostojnu informaciju o povijesnom Isusu ili o onome što su prvi kršćani mislili o njemu. Pored toga, već znamo da je Klement poznat kao veoma lakovjeran u prihvatanju neprovjerenih spisa.” Koga zanima... Boyd, Gregory A. Cynic Sage or Son of Cod? Recovering the Real Jesus in an Age of 'Revisionist Replies. Wheaton, Ill.: BridgePoint, 1995. Jesus under Siege. Wheaton, Ill.: Victor, 1995.
Johnson, Luke Timothy. The Real Jesus. San Francisco: HarperSan- Francisco, 1996.
Wilkins, Michael J., and J. P. Moreland, eds. Jesus under Fire. Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1995.
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