Otkuda ti to da postoje odvojene škole za aškenaze i sefarde, gdje si to čuo?

Pa nema, zabranio sud, sve ti piše.

Ali iskreno, ovako stvari stoje. Korifeji cionističkog pokreta bili su Aškenazi. Kako se rodio cionistički pokret? Ovo je bitna stvar. Sefardski židovi, dakle kao veća katergorija (uključuje i Mizrahije) su u najturbulentnijem razdoblju za židove - 19. i 20. stoljeće - živjeli u Sjevernoj Africi i Bliskom Istoku, dakle, zemljopisnom području gdje nije bilo problematično živjeti za jednog židova, dok su Aškenazi živjeli u anti-semitskoj Europi, gdje su se rađali razni anti-semitski pokreti ili pokreti koji su bili pod snažnim utjecajem anti-semitizma, tj. imali elemente anti-semitizma... bio to nacizam, ili neki radikalni nacionalistički pokreti ili nešto treće. Dakle antisemitizam prema Aškenazima rodio je cionizam, stoga su aškenaski židovi pokrenuli ideju stvaranja židovske države na području palestinske regije. Oni su za to i najzaslužniji, jer su bili utjecajniji, obrazovaniji i ekonomski jači od Sefarda. Oni su isposlovali i Balfoursku deklaraciju od Britanaca (njemački Židovi) kojom im je dopušteno da dobiju dio britanskog Palestinskog mandata.

Europski židovi - Aškenazi, financiraju ponovnu izgradnju Izraela, povratak, dakle daju ogromnu financijsku podršku, daju gro obrazovanog kadra (usporedi europsko pravo i pravo arapa, europsku filozofiju i arapsku filozofiju, europsku medicinu i arapsku medicinu itd. u ono vrijeme, dakle imali su naprednije znanje u svim domenama). Aškenazi oblikuju židovsku državu prema europskom modelu, daju joj europski duh. Sefardi su se samo trebali useliti i rađati se da povećaju židovsku populaciju, što su i napravili. Dakle većinska zasluga za povratak židova i izgradnju židovske države pripada Aškenazima. Sama ideja ponovnog stvaranja židovske države nastala je zbog antisemitizma kojeg su u 99% slučajeva trpili Aškenazi itd. Dakle, ne pretjerujem kada kažem - Izrael je u stvari stvoren radi potreba Aškenaza.

Nije tacno. Zacetak ideje cionistickog pokreta je stvorio balkanski Sefard, po uzoru na Srpske ustanke pocetkom 19. vijeka protiv Otomanske imperije, u cijem sastavu je bio i prostor Palestine.

http://sr.wikipedia.org/sr-el/%D0%88%D0 ... 0%B0%D1%98

Govorim naravno o Theorodu Herzlu i modernom cionizmu. Temeljiti čitav cionistički pokret na Alkalaju je smiješno. Ne negiram da je bio među prvima koji se dosjetio ideje o povratku židova u Palestinu - ali i dalje ostaje usamljeni Sefard među stotinama Aškenaza.

Očito nisi shvatio što sam rekao. Korifeji modernog cionizma su svi redom Aškenazi. Na kraju krajeva, Sefardi nikad nisu masovno ni pristali uz cionističke ideje u tom razdoblju, te ideje plodno tlo su nalazile ugl. među Aškenazima. I Alkalaj nije ništa uzvišeniji, u to vrijeme postojale su i ranije ideje o povratku židova u Palestinu... "i dogodine u Jeruzalemu". To je bila vječita želja.

Na Hercla su uticali radovi Alkalaja. Herclovi preci su bili bliski sa Alkalajem.

Opet kažem, wiki je wiki, ne zanima me što kaže wikipedija, niti me zanima tko je utjecao na koga. Postojali su preteče cionizma i stariji od Alkalaja. Kao da je to bitno. Ti uporno guraš Alkalaja, bezveze, blesavo i besmisleno. Uopće ne možeš shvatit što sam rekao niti o čemu sam govorio.

Ostat ce zapisano zauvijek u povijesti da je Theodor Herzl osnivac i zacetnik cionizma odnosno
ideje da se Židovi vrate u Erec Israel,svaki Židov ce to reci

No njegov otac Jakub je rodjen u Zemunu i sigurno da je i rabin Alkalaj iz Zemuna imao utjecaj na njih,na
Theodorove ideje

To je upitno, ali nije nemoguće, zapravo je vjerojatno - ali. Nebitno za ovu temu. Govorite o jednom jedinom Sefardu, koji je jedan od (!) preteča cionizma, u sklopu modernog cionizma čiji su korifeji bili uglavnom Aškenazi.

Ma jasno je da su Askenazi zasluzni za cionisticki pokret i stvaranje Izraela,to je neupitno

Sto vise citam i ucim o njima sve vise im se divim

A Mizrahi osim sto su izgledom slicni Arapima,slicni su im i u nekim drugim segmentima kao
sto je mentalitet,ipak su stoljeca zivota pod arapskom vlascu ucinila svoje,isto
kao sto je Europa utjecala na Askenaze

Upravo to.

Dakle, postaviti pitanje - da nije bilo progona i antisemitizma u Europi, koji su bili usmjereni isključivo na Aškenaze, bi li se ikada u njima i kod židova općenito, probudila svijest u širokim masama o potrebi imanja židovske države. Svi stereotipi koje imamo o židovima u svari su stereotipovi o Aškenazima - da su inteligentni, da su škrti, da su uzroni članovi zajednice, uzorni roditelji, da se nalaze svi na visokim položajima. Sefardi nisu ništa kao Aškenazi. Koji to su Sefardi bili na visokim položajima u BiH ili ex-Yu? Osim možda Moše Pijade i zadnjeg ministra vanjskih poslova Svena Alkalaja Koji ne zna je li Hrvat ili Židov. Ili inače, jesu li Sefardi igdje u svijetu istaknuti?

Da,upravo to,a to je povijest,nesto sto je u jednom trenutka nevolja,progon,ubijanje i slicno iznjedri
tako jednu veliku ideju i akciju da se stvori Izrael

Inace sad citam malo o Sefardima,najstarija sefardska sinagoga na svijetu je ona u Dubrovniku,a Sefard na
hebrejskom znaci Spanjolac

A Aškenaz Nijemac :) Ti Židovi razvili su i različite jezike - jidiš = njemački + aramejski, a ladino = španjolski + aramejski.

Toplo preporučujem:

http://www.jewfaq.org/index.shtml

A Mizrahi znaci istocni,odnosno blisko istocni Zidov

U zadnje vrijeme se dosta interesiram za hebrejski jezik,bilo bi lijepo nauciti
bar osnove,djeluje mi zanimljivo

Hvala za stranicu

Samo naprijed. Slova nisu toliko komplicirana za naučit, ali je zato teško čitati, jer ne postoje samoglasnici. Doduše, postoje oznake za samoglasnike, ali ih Židovi ne pišu, to rade samo stranci.

Sličan je arapskom onda.

Samo što arapsko pismo ima više stila i da se uljepšavati kaligrafijom neke riječi se slično izgovaraju kao što su ruka i neki dijelovi tijela npr.

Semitski jezici, da. Svako pismo ima svoju kaligrafiju, pa i hebrejsko.

Arapski mi je nekako čitki a hebrejski mi izgleda kao u kockicama da je pisan. Slova su mu nejasna i kraće se pišu od arapskih šo je u neku ruku i prednost.

Točno tako, po tome je hebrejsko pismo i poznato što je "kockoliko", ali lakše je naučiti hebrejska slova nego arapska. Vjerujem da je hebrejski amaterima čitkiji, jer se slova ne spajaju, kod arapskog se spajaju i za gotovo svako slovo postoje tri inačice, dok kod hebrejskog postoje dvije inačice i to samo za par slova.

Arapi ne koriste znakove dok kod nearapa imaju znakovi tj koji objašnjavaju da li se neko slovo ima nastavak ili ne npr nekad može biti "be" nekad samo b a neked "bi" pa se zbog toga stavljaju znakovi crtice.

Netanyahuova predizborna reklama:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ad0_1422847357

Raspored židovskih zajednica u Tunisu 1921.g.

We Palestinian Christians say Allahu Akbar'
The only Palestinian Orthodox Christian bishop in the Holy Land speaking about the suffering of Palestinian Christians, their unity with Muslims in the Palestinian struggle, about Orthodox Christian martyrs, and Ukraine.

Archbishop Sebastia Theodosios (Atallah Hanna), 49, is the only Orthodox Christian archbishop from Palestine stationed in Jerusalem and the Holy Land, while all other bishops of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem are Greeks. The Israeli authorities had detained him several times, or stopped him at the border, and taken away his passport. Among all Jerusalem clergymen he is the only one who has no privilege of passing through the VIP gate in the airport – because of his nationality. “For the Israeli authorities, I am not a bishop, but rather a Palestinian,” explains his Beatitude. When talking on the phone he says a lot of words you would normally hear from a Muslim: “Alhamdulillah, Insha’Allah, Masha’Allah”. He speaks Arabic, and the Arabic for ‘god’ is Allah, whether you are a Christian or a Muslim.

Your Beatitude, what’s it like being the Palestinian bishop in the Holy Land?

Firstly, I’d like to confirm that I am the only Palestinian bishop in the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem. A fellow bishop is serving in the city of Irbid in the north of Jordan; and there are also several Palestinian priests.

I take pride in belonging to this great religious institution that’s over 2,000 years old.

My church has been protecting the Christian presence in the Holy Land and the sacred items related to the life of Christ and Christian Church history.

I am proud of my religion and nationality, I am proud to belong to my fatherland. I am a Palestinian, and I belong to this religious people who are fighting for the sake of their freedom and dignity to implement their dreams and national rights.

I support Palestinians and share their cause and their issues. We the Palestinian Orthodox Christians are not detached from their hardships.

The Palestinian issue is a problem that concerns all of us, Christians and Muslims alike. It’s a problem of every free intellectual individual aspiring for justice and freedom in this world.

We the Palestinian Christians suffer along with the rest of Palestinians from occupation and hardships of our economic situation. Muslims and Christians suffer equally, as there is no difference in suffering for any of us. We are all living in the same complicated circumstances, and overcoming the same difficulties.

As a church and as individuals we protect this people, and we hope a day will come when Palestinians get their freedom and dignity.


Do people say Allahu Akbar in church?

Of course.

For us, Allah is not an Islamic term. This is a word used in Arabic to indicate the Creator who’s made the world we are living in. So when we say Allah in our prayers we mean the Creator of this world.

In our prayers and pleas, in our Orthodox Christian religious ceremonies we use exactly this word. We say, glory be to Allah in all times. We say Allah a lot during our liturgy. It’s erroneous to think that the word Allah is only used by Muslims.

We the Arab Christians say Allah in our Arabic language as a way to identify and address the Creator in our prayers.

Is this all about Christ? Was he the one to provoke a religious split in the Holy Land? Christians and Muslims recognize that Jesus Christ had been born, and they are awaiting his second coming, and the judgment day. Jews deny this however, and await their Messiah.

We Christians believe that Jesus has already come. We have recently celebrated Christmas as a reminder that Jesus came into this world, that he was born in Bethlehem, and began his road here in the Holy Land for the sake of all mankind, and for the salvation of the world.

So as far as we are concerned, Jesus has already come.

Jews believe that he hasn’t come yet, and await his coming. This is the main disagreement between Jews and us. We believe that Jesus has already come, whereas they don’t.

Despite this fact, we are not at war with Jews. We do not express aggression against Jews or anyone else in the world, despite any differences in our beliefs.

We pray for those who disagree with us.

When Jesus came into this world he didn’t tell us to hate, ignore, or be at war with one or the other; he didn’t tell us to kill this one or that one. He gave us one very simple instruction: to love one another. When Jesus told us to love one another this love wasn’t conditioned by what a person was like, or what he was doing. If we are indeed true Christians it is our debt to love all people, and to treat them with positivity, and with love.

When we see someone who’s sinful, lost, and distant from Allah and from faith, someone who acts wrongly, then it is our duty to pray for him although he might be different from us and our religion. When we have religious disagreements with people we pray that Allah would guide them the right way. Hatred, anger, and accusations of having a wrong faith are not a part of our ethics as Christians. This is the key disagreement and difference between the Jewish religion and ours. The Jewish religion that had existed before Christ is the religion of people who were awaiting Jesus’ coming. Many Jews followed him, yet there were those who didn’t believe in him, and rejected him.

We know that Jesus was persecuted, and so were the early Christians. For instance, Herod the King killed thousands of babies in Bethlehem thinking that Jesus would be among them. The book of the Acts of the Apostles, as well as sacred tradition, talk about numerous instances of persecution of early Christians.

Despite that, we see each person who disagrees with us on religion as our brother, our fellow human. Allah created all of us, he gave us life, therefore it is our duty to love each person, and to pray for those who are mistaken or are misunderstanding, so that Allah would guide them the right way.

Is that why Christians and Muslims are persecuted?

We don’t divide the Palestinian people based on who is Christian and who is Muslim, who is religious and who isn’t, who is left or what party they are a member of. We don’t divide the people based on convictions and religion.

For the resistance it doesn’t matter whether they are Muslim or Christian.

Regardless of what their political views may be, all Palestinians actively support the idea that the Palestinian people should be able to exercise their rights and achieve their dream.

Yes, a number Christians have been killed since 1948 to this day. Some Christians have been driven away from their houses. Some Christian villages have been completely destroyed, and now there’s not a single house or resident there, for example, Al Galil in the Golan Heights.

Many churches have been attacked in Jerusalem; there have been attempts to seize their property and lands.

There are Christians in Israeli prisons – not as many as Muslims, but there are some. The Christian community is smaller in general, but we have our own martyrs who were killed and prisoners who spent years and years behind bars.

Christians suffer under the Israeli occupation just the same as Muslims – the entire Palestinian population suffers under it. They don’t distinguish between us.

Are there any special aspects when it comes to Christians living in the Holy Land?

Here’s one of the many examples, connected to the Russian Orthodox Church.

The Holy Trinity Cathedral located in the western part of Jerusalem belonged to the Russian Orthodox Church, but after 1948 Israel used the situation in Russia to its advantage and seized some of the buildings around the Cathedral, using them as police quarters and a prison with torture practices.

When someone says “moskobiya”, referring to something connected to the Moscow Patriarchate, something holy and spiritual, the first thing that comes to the mind of a Palestinian living in Jerusalem is torture, police, interrogation and prison.

In Nazareth, for example, the word “moskobiya” is associated exclusively with the old Russian school where the Palestinian cultural elite, scientists and politicians studied. Although it was closed after the 1917 Revolution in Russia, its fame lives on.

So it’s only for the Palestinians in Jerusalem.

What do Palestinian Christians, I mean Orthodox Christians first of all, think of the Ukraine crisis?

Overall, we are deeply concerned with the divide in Ukraine. We still believe all Ukrainian Christians must stay within the fold of the Mother Church that is the Moscow Patriarchate.

I wish the Ukraine crisis would resolve through dialogue so that we see reconciliation and an end to violence and bloodshed.

Christians do not need wars, killings and massacres. This political crisis must be resolved in a peaceful way. The Church must work hard to ensure that the divisions are bridged and overcome.

The Orthodox Church in Ukraine is strong because most of the people preach Orthodox Christianity.

Divisions must be healed. We really hope that the efforts by the Moscow Patriarchate and the Patriarchate of Constantinople will help to re-unite the Ukrainian Church.

I believe the split can be reversed and those who broke away could come back. But in order for that to happen we need humility, belief and strong will.

We pray for the Orthodox Church in Ukraine.

The statements, views and opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RT.

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116 comments
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Mahboob Khan
0
Our Christian brothers have no problem when someone says, "God is great" in English; however, when someone says the same thing in Arabic, "Allahu Akbar" (God is the Greatest), they have big issue with it. In John 14.28 Jesus has been quoted to have said, "I am going to the Father, for My Father is greater than I". In Aramaic God is Allaha so basically Jesus has confirmed that it is perfectly ok to say, "Allahu Akbar" i.e. "Allah is the Greatest". I do agree, however, that the aliens in the ISIS have misused this term to defame Islam for their own hidden agenda.

If we carefully examine the message of God/Allah/Allaha brought to us via Prophets such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad, peace be upon them, they all commanded us to follow One True God Allah. This fact is stated in Qur'aan:

42:13. "He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus/Isa - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back [to Him]."

Allah had intended the same religion for us but we got divided therein.
about 19 hours agoReply

David Irons
-3
So what happen to all the Christian in the Gaza strip by Hamas!? Sharia states to murder you stupid Christians. Enjoy your misery with the hateful arabs. These Christians are blind and fools to their own demise.
about 21 hours agoReply

don't read this phrase
0
Stupid there are more than 400,000 Christian living in lebanon with moderate Muslims side by side in peaceful there's no problem with Muslims and Christian copts in Egypt etc.....
about 3 hours agoReply

Joe Marloshkovip
+4
Around 30,000 Jews living in Iran, no problem.
about 19 hours agoReply

Lana Lulu Speers
-2
If only they could leave these old religious curses behind and all become Bahaai's they would know they are all in the wrong and should show the world God is love. but they cant cause they have no real spiritual love of mankind in thier hearts
about 21 hours agoReply

tom bols
+5
Muhser Candidato

+8

To understand the bishop's point, you have to first remove from your mind all prejudices against Muslims. He's NOT siding with Muslims. Jeez! He's siding WITH PALESTINIANS like him, regardless of religion. He said, "We don’t divide the Palestinian people based on who is Christian and who is Muslim, who is religious and who isn’t, who is left or what party they are a member of. We don’t divide the people based on convictions and religion. For the resistance it doesn’t matter whether they are Muslim or Christian." From what he's saying, I think Palestinian Christians in the holy land are closer to their fellow Muslim neighbors than to the Jews. The Christians and Muslims there live together in peace. Notice also how the bishop defends Islam, "We condemn the terror attacks in Paris and we equally condemn any such attacks in any part of the world. We strongly oppose the idea of connecting these attacks to Islam."
day ago 22:44Reply

Frances Dale
-4
Jesus said to love thy neighbor. No one is doing what he said to do. The Palestinians are teaching their children HATE. The Jews are over-defending themselves because they are tired of being blown up. The Jews are just people. The Palestinians are just people. Every time they kill one another, they increase their karma or retribution. If one side would turn the other cheek, and keep doing it even though the attacks continue, the cycle of violence could end.
day ago 22:05Reply

Stevie Ray
+2
"Karma"? When did the Hindus enter into this?

Next you'll be telling us that the Feng Shui in Jerusalem is all wrong!
about 24 hours agoReply

tom bols
+5
The jews must stop stealing Palestinian land.
day ago 22:27Reply

samuel salameh
-1
This coming from a former Zionist. benjamin freedman's 1961 speech
day ago 22:01Reply
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