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Autor/ica Poruka
 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 27 stu 2023, 17:10 
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Sayeret Matkal je napisao/la:



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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 30 stu 2023, 05:09 
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Pridružen/a: 14 sij 2013, 23:25
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Na stranici prosvida moderatorima dotaknuli su se židovskih virnika u otin ratoviman.
Naiša san na ove informacije

https://www.crusaderkingdoms.com/jews.html

Citat:
Jews in the Crusader Kingdoms
Everyone has heard how the crusaders slaughtered all the inhabitants of the Jerusalem when they captured the city by storm on July 15, 1099. Among the dead were allegedly the entire Jewish population of Jerusalem at the time. We also know that long before the first crusaders reached Jerusalem, in 1096, Jewish communities in the Rhineland were attacked and massacred mercilessly, and that all subsequent crusades were likewise accompanied by greater or lesser outbreaks of violence against Jews in Western Europe. It may therefore come as a surprise that Jews in the crusader states themselves suffered no persecution. On the contrary, by the end of the 13th century, the crusader kingdom of Jerusalem had become home to a flourishing community of Jews and a major center of Talmudic studies.


Citat:
The initial contact between crusaders and Jews had been bitter. The Jews actively supported the Muslim defenders of Jerusalem, Haifa, and other cities of the Holy Land. When these cities fell to assault, the Jews were massacred along with the Muslim defenders; when the cities agreed to terms, they were allowed to withdraw with their portable goods and chattels. Within ten years, most Jews, who were predominantly urban-dwellers, had been driven out of the territories held by the crusaders. In Jerusalem itself, a ban prohibited Jews from ever re-settling in the Holy City.

Yet there is ample evidence of the fact that the Jews remained or returned to other cities ― or never left at all.


Citat:
establishment of the crusader states and regular trade and pilgrimage traffic between the Holy Land and Western Europe allowed European Jews to undertake the pilgrimage to Jerusalem and other sacred places in the Holy Land. The pilgrim traffic to the crusader states included a significant portion of Jews ― and like their Christian counterparts, many of these chose to stay in the Holy Land after they arrived.

They were encouraged to do so not merely by the proximity to their holy sites, but by the prevailing atmosphere of tolerance in the crusader states ― in sharp contrast to the situation “at home” in Western Europe


Citat:
Although Robert Chazan[i] traces the roots of anti-Semitism to the start of the 11th century, when the Jews were complicit in the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher by the Fatimid caliph in 1009, there is strong evidence that the crusades intensified anti-Semitic feelings among large portions of the population of Western Europe. Daniel P. Franke[ii] rightly points out that the Popes ― right into the 15th century ― maintained a policy of tolerance, quoting from a papal bull in 1120, which states:

We decree that no Christian shall use violence to force [Jews] into baptism while they are unwilling and refuse… Moreover…no Christian shall presume to wound their persons, or kill them, or rob them of their money… Furthermore, while they celebrate their festivals, no one shall disturb them in any way.[iii]

Yet the very fact that 23 popes of the 12th to 15th centuries felt compelled to re-issue this directive underlines the fact that violence against the Jews continued across Western Europe.


Ovo je potvrda da kršćanstvo, barem zapadno, katoličko, nije izvor mržnje prima židovskin virniciman. U veliko religiozno doba, papa je zapovidia ne dirat se u židove!!! Papa, ne ni biskup, ni obični pop!
Nije to ovo današnje doba di masa to doživi ka' folklornu poručicu. U stara vrimena šta je pop reka, ima si slušat!


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 30 stu 2023, 05:28 
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Pridružen/a: 14 sij 2013, 23:25
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Ovo kazuju židovski izvori

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-crusades

Citat:
...Aware of the inherent danger in the situation, the leaders of the Mainz community hastily dispatched a delegation to Emperor Henry IV, who wrote immediately to the princes, bishops, and counts of the empire to forbid them from harming the Jews. ...

the Crusade had evolved into a ponderous machine of various elements: the greater nobility, the lesser nobles such as Count Emicho of Leiningen, and the people. It was the last element that proved particularly receptive to the anti-Jewish slogans spreading rapidly among its ranks and was less amenable to discipline. Although the bishops and prominent nobles were generally opposed to such ideas, they had no wish to see Christians fight Christians over the Jews. Frequently their assistance to the attacked Jews was passive at most. ...

Weakened through fasting, for they had hoped to avert the disaster through exemplary piety, the Jews had to retreat to the bishop’s castle; however, the latter could do nothing for them, as he had to flee before the combined assault of Crusaders and burghers. After a brief struggle, a wholesale massacre ensued....

The bishop dispersed the town’s Jews to hide them in nearby localities: at Neuss, Wevelinghofen, Eller, Xanten, Mehr, Kerpen, Geldern, and Ellen. The Crusaders located them, and a bloodbath followed. At Trier, the bishop could not protect his Jews, as he had to go into hiding and consequently advised them to become Christians. The great majority refused, preferring suicide. All the Jews were dragged to the Danube at Regensburg, all the Jews were dragged to the Danube, where they were flung into the water and forced to accept baptism.
...
The Jews who had been baptized under duress generally continued to practice Judaism in secret. As early as 1097, Emperor Henry IV allowed them openly to return to their former faith...



Citat:
Second Crusade

On the loss of Edessa by the Crusaders (1144), the West became troubled over the fate of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem, and a new Crusade to save it was preached by Pope Eugene III. The popes attempted to encourage the Crusaders at the Jews’ expense. Innocent III in 1198 ordered that no interest should be chargeable during the absence of Crusaders on debts they incurred to the Jews and that anything already received should be returned. Since the return of a crusader was problematical, this restriction, when it was observed, implied at best the immobility of Jewish capital over prolonged periods, at worst the possibility of total confiscation (which was to become more widespread with the extension from the 13th century of the term “Crusade” to any campaign in any part of the world in which the popes might be politically interested). Naturally, this caused great difficulties for their Jewish creditors.


Citat:
After the overthrow of the Crusaders by a Muslim army under Saladin (1187), the Jews were again accorded a certain measure of freedom, including the right to live in Jerusalem.


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 30 stu 2023, 06:39 
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Pridružen/a: 08 sij 2020, 17:34
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Sokolić je napisao/la:
Ovo je potvrda da kršćanstvo, barem zapadno, katoličko, nije izvor mržnje prima židovskin virniciman. U veliko religiozno doba, papa je zapovidia ne dirat se u židove!!! Papa, ne ni biskup, ni obični pop!
Nije to ovo današnje doba di masa to doživi ka' folklornu poručicu. U stara vrimena šta je pop reka, ima si slušat!


kršćanstvo nije izvor mržnje prema nikome.

ali kao što vidiš, i onda se papu nije slušalo u svemu.

_________________
Čuvajte nacionalnu homogenost ko zjenicu oka svoga!


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 11 pro 2023, 18:56 
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slika

Enklave u Perziji


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 11 pro 2023, 19:01 
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Pridružen/a: 14 sij 2013, 23:25
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https://www.animatedmaps.div.ed.ac.uk/divinity_map/ad250.html

AD250 : Christianity at the time of Decian Persecution
slika

AD 250 - 406
slika

AD406: Christianity at the time of Gothic and Germanic invasions
slika


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 11 pro 2023, 19:15 
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Pitan se jesu li imali za cilj restauraciju kršćanstva na Sridnjen Istoku, ne samo Blisken?
slika


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 12 pro 2023, 01:39 
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Pridružen/a: 14 sij 2013, 23:25
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Svit uoči muslimanskih osvajanja 600.godine
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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 12 pro 2023, 09:16 
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Pridružen/a: 08 sij 2020, 17:34
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koliko ljepši svijet

_________________
Čuvajte nacionalnu homogenost ko zjenicu oka svoga!


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 12 pro 2023, 23:04 
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Pridružen/a: 18 svi 2018, 00:02
Postovi: 5036
teško da su ta osvajanja bila islamska :)
izgleda da su arapi tada krscani a tek u devetom izmisljaju islam.

_________________
Jedino oružje im je pero, ali su nepismeni.


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 12 pro 2023, 23:18 
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Pridružen/a: 08 svi 2009, 13:12
Postovi: 24436
Da.

Iako je pitanje koliko bi mi opstali, da su Bizantu ostali Egipat, Sirija, sjeverna Afrika...

Vjerojatno bi dobili Gote u Italiji i Španjolskoj, pa bi bilo interesantno s Francima u Galiji i Germaniji...


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 12 pro 2023, 23:38 
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Pridružen/a: 15 srp 2019, 21:21
Postovi: 879
Ceha je napisao/la:
Da.

Iako je pitanje koliko bi mi opstali, da su Bizantu ostali Egipat, Sirija, sjeverna Afrika...

Vjerojatno bi dobili Gote u Italiji i Španjolskoj, pa bi bilo interesantno s Francima u Galiji i Germaniji...


Ne bi nas bilo u ovom obliku.
Pad RC-a (ili povlačenje u slučaju Bizanta) je direktno omogućio stvaranje današnjih europskih nacija na tlu nekadašnjeg carstva.
Zato nema smisla kad neki današnji europljani žale za padom RC-a.


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 13 pro 2023, 01:20 
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Pridružen/a: 08 svi 2009, 13:12
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Clint Eastwood je napisao/la:
Ceha je napisao/la:
Da.

Iako je pitanje koliko bi mi opstali, da su Bizantu ostali Egipat, Sirija, sjeverna Afrika...

Vjerojatno bi dobili Gote u Italiji i Španjolskoj, pa bi bilo interesantno s Francima u Galiji i Germaniji...


Ne bi nas bilo u ovom obliku.
Pad RC-a (ili povlačenje u slučaju Bizanta) je direktno omogućio stvaranje današnjih europskih nacija na tlu nekadašnjeg carstva.
Zato nema smisla kad neki današnji europljani žale za padom RC-a.


To je kao nestanak dinosaura.
Da su ti pticoliki polugmazovi nastavili postojati, danas ne bi bilo ni sisavaca, ni ljudi.

Ajde, bilo bi zabavno vidjeti drugačije križarske, u kojima pada Egipat i slično, pa muslimani masovno bježe u Indoneziju, španjolska rekonkvista se nastavlja u Maroku, ali...
Onda opet ne bi bilo katoličke Amerike.


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 14 pro 2023, 09:37 
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Pridružen/a: 19 kol 2022, 17:36
Postovi: 346
Karabaja je napisao/la:
Rika sv Vida je napisao/la:

Ti si izdajnik svoga naroda, kmečiš tamo za nekakvim poremećenim hamasovcima jer ih smatraš svojima.

Svaki potlačeni na svijetu je moj, a svaki tiranij tvoj. Tu se ja i ti razlikujemo

onda Turci njegovi, a Kurdi i Armenci tvoji


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 14 pro 2023, 15:51 
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Pridružen/a: 24 sij 2023, 16:54
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Meni je jedna od zanimljivijih epizoda križarski gusarski pohod po crvenom moru kad su izazvali paniku i kod stanovnika Meke i Medine. Kod muslimana je vlada dojam da predstoji napad na ta 2 najsvjetija mista islama. Opljačkane su luke Aydhab (danas na spornom području između Egippta i Sudana) te Rabigh (u današnjoj saudijskoj arabiji). Zanimljiv poduhvat koji je slabo istražen.


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 Naslov: Re: Križarski ratovi
PostPostano: 15 pro 2023, 21:54 
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Pridružen/a: 14 sij 2013, 23:25
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Sokolić je napisao/la:
Pitan se jesu li imali za cilj restauraciju kršćanstva na Sridnjen Istoku, ne samo Blisken?
slika


Pogledajte područjje Iraka. Njega su okupirali Ameri sa savezniciman.

Tribali su napravit "zonu od nadzorom UN", a de facto američki ovisni teritorij, ka' šta su Englezi napravili na Cipru s Akrotirijen i Dhekelijon. To su mogli napravit na kršćanskon području Ninivske ravnice. Vojna nazočnost, američke postrojbe grupirat ondi i ogradit žicon bodaricon. Ameri ne bidu imali problema sa samoubilačkin napadiman (zbog kojih su pokunjeno napustili Irak), jer bidu čuvali ozemje di je stanovništvo krajnje prijatejski naklonjeno, među kršćaniman. Tu bi SAD imale otok stabilnosti, uporišnu točku i odskočnu dasku za dalnje akcije. Bila bi ta zona dobra egzemplarna točka za širenjen demokracije. Manje bi in tribalo bodljikave žice nego prima Meksiku. Imali bidu i poligon za isprobavanje noveg oružja i dragovojne žive vojne mete među neprijatejskin islamističkin fanaticiman u okružju.


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